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Post by Silver on Apr 29, 2023 11:53:47 GMT 1
I should add that I thought the recipe which was the straight up 'The Grand Finale. version 1.1' was actually good tasting deep fried chicken, but simply not KFC OR, or even a good duplication of KFC OR as for my Recipe #17 (with or without Cayenne).
My wife's take was completely different. She said that despite the tweaked recipe with the Star-Anise being the better and more balanced of the two, both recipes were actually awful, and not at all delicious as for Recipe #17 (with or without Cayenne), which she agrees tastes a lot like real KFC OR. When I asked her to express just how bad both of these just eaten recipes were, she stated that they make the deep fried chicken from a nearby Italian restaurant (which is among those Pizza Restaurants which I routinely bash for serving overbearing with Oregano Chicken) taste good by comparison.
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Post by Silver on Apr 29, 2023 12:20:47 GMT 1
As always, I collect my thoughts after eating a failed recipe and try to right the ship. And per my habits I always offer an alternative or two. And thus:
200. grams Cake Flour
31.0 grams Flour Salt
----------------------
7.00 grams MSG
1.00 grams Dextrose (or 0.75 grams common Granulated Sugar)
4.25 grams Black Pepper (~half fine, ~half medium coarse)
3.00 grams White Pepper
1.50 grams Coriander Seed
1.00 grams Sage
1.00 grams Ginger
0.50 grams Anise Seed
0.25 grams Nutmeg
0.125 grams Clove
0.125 grams Summer Savory
0.125 grams Thyme
0.125 grams Garlic Powder
Sum = 20 grams below the dashed line
Note that 0.125 grams of Clove is the Eugenol equivalent of 0.625 grams of Allspice, such that the recipe may potentially be even better as follows:
200. grams Cake Flour
31.0 grams Flour Salt
----------------------
6.50 grams MSG
1.00 grams Dextrose (or 0.75 grams common Granulated Sugar)
4.25 grams Black Pepper (~half fine, ~half medium coarse)
3.00 grams White Pepper
1.50 grams Coriander Seed
1.00 grams Sage
1.00 grams Ginger
0.625 grams Allspice
0.50 grams Anise Seed
0.25 grams Nutmeg
0.125 grams Summer Savory
0.125 grams Thyme
0.125 grams Garlic Powder
Sum = 20 grams below the dashed line
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Post by Silver on Apr 29, 2023 12:42:45 GMT 1
Since Allspice is said to express Clove, Nutmeg, and Cinnamon, and I mentioned in my notes that some Cinnamon sweetness might be of benefit, the Allspice Alternative might be the first of these two that should be attempted. But they should be close cousins.
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Post by Silver on Apr 29, 2023 12:45:32 GMT 1
With what I've learned, should a group of us attempt cooking this recipe instead of 'The Grand Finale, 1.1'?
200. grams Cake Flour
31.0 grams Flour Salt
----------------------
6.50 grams MSG
1.00 grams Dextrose (or 0.75 grams common Granulated Sugar)
4.25 grams Black Pepper (~half fine, ~half medium coarse)
3.00 grams White Pepper
1.50 grams Coriander Seed
1.00 grams Sage
1.00 grams Ginger
0.625 grams Allspice
0.50 grams Anise Seed
0.25 grams Nutmeg
0.125 grams Summer Savory
0.125 grams Thyme
0.125 grams Garlic Powder
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flg
Souschef
Posts: 1,578
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Post by flg on Apr 29, 2023 14:29:27 GMT 1
I think coriander falls below Sage in the pecking order. Coriander is at or less than 1g in a 200g recipe. For me anyway. I'd also consider that more with nutmeg back in.
Food for thought:
You have mentioned numerous times how successful your recipe #17 was.
Have you cooked it since just to reassure yourself? Or reset your research.
Look at minor tweaks within #17. One change at a time. Refine it.
I am going to recook my last recipe with a full load of cayenne. No 50/50 blend. That's it, and go from there.
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Post by Silver on Apr 29, 2023 14:59:39 GMT 1
I do indeed need to revisit #17, as per my wife, and now you. But Coriander needs to be bumped up in my opinion whereby to achieve what I'm referring to as a requisite level of nuttiness, as clearly (for both me and my wife) didn't detect enough of this flavor characteristic within 1.1, whereas it is apparent for Recipe #17. It might be however that my container of Coriander Seed is both ground and ever aging, whereby a more fresh whole seed Coriander may indeed require somewhat less. My guess is that KFC (or actually the companies they contract) tweak(s) each commercial scale batch they produce to whereby to account for what may be huge essential oil variations in their ever changing lots of H&S. Or else they merely adjust with olioresin extractives. Likely this involves GC (or other) analytical analysis leading to balance adjustment. deepfriednew101 is correct in saying that herbs and spices vary in many ways. |
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Post by Silver on Apr 29, 2023 15:14:09 GMT 1
That herbs and spices vary wildly in their oils is the main reason why trusting in a highly delimited number of GC's is seriously flawed. I've operated such machines in my day, and a number of other of such amazingly expensive analytical tools. And I don't put anywhere near the faith in them that you do. Every time I search the internet for GC analyses of herbs and spices, the mega-diversity of GC derived analytical results between the various of studies is so wildly extreme for each H&S as to be effectively useless as a guide. The 3-sigma based error bars must be approaching astronomical in width. If (such as it does) a single one of the 11 can give wild GC variations for H&S, then imagine juggling 11 of such wildly varying oil estimations at the same time. (Edit: If each of the 11 H&S contain 20-30 of such oils, then the oils juggling is clearly on a scale of well more than just 11). CHS's recipe likely did not exhibit anywhere near the same uniformity of its oil characteristics early on as it does today. But my operation of GC's and the like initially dates back to my university days a bit before the mid 70's, and they were clearly around well before then. So once CHS (and his successors) achieved a certain level of commercial success whereby to afford and thus incorporate the use of such tools, the oils must have been analytically normalized, and from hence forth tweaked into conformity. Until then (due to the shear expense and rarity involved in such equipment, particularly early-on) it was all on CHS, and granted, he may have had an uncanny ability to tweak simply based upon taste and/or smell alone. But then again he was only human. |
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flg
Souschef
Posts: 1,578
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Post by flg on Apr 29, 2023 15:18:50 GMT 1
I do indeed need to revisit #17, as per my wife, and now you. But Coriander needs to be bumped up in my opinion whereby to achieve what I'm referring to as a requisite level of nuttiness, as clearly (for both me and my wife) didn't detect enough of this flavor characteristic within 1.1, whereas it is apparent for Recipe #17. It might be however that my container of Coriander Seed is both ground and ever aging, whereby a more fresh whole seed Coriander may indeed require somewhat less. My guess is that KFC (or actually the companies they contract) tweak(s) each commercial scale batch they produce to whereby to account for what may be huge essential oil variations in their ever changing lots of H&S. Or else they merely adjust with olioresin extractives. Likely this involves GC (or other) analytical analysis leading to balance adjustment. deepfriednew101 is correct in saying that herbs and spices vary in many ways. I think this is a major factor in multiple people cooking the same recipe and obtaining the same results. Quality and freshness of ingredients. It may be close but not identical in results.
I have mentioned before that I mix 3 different types of black pepper. I have bought more black pepper than a person could use. I will use up as much of the ones that weren't for me during BBQ season. But likely will have to toss some out.
My blend of black pepper might mean less than you use or more.
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flg
Souschef
Posts: 1,578
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Post by flg on Apr 29, 2023 15:20:42 GMT 1
That herbs and spices vary wildly in their oils is the main reason why trusting in a highly delimited number of GC's is seriously flawed. I've operated such machines in my day, and a number of others of such amazingly expensive analytical tools. And I don't put anywhere near the faith in them that you do. Every time I search the internet for GC analyses of herbs and spices, the mega-diversity of GC derived analytical results between the various of studies is so wildly extreme for each H&S as to be effectively useless as a guide. The 3-sigma based error bars must be approaching astronomical in width. If (such as it does) a single one of the 11 can give wild GC variations for H&S, then imagine juggling 11 of such wildly varying oil estimations at the same time. CHS's recipe likely did not exhibit the uniformity of its oil characteristics early on as it does today. But my operation of GC's and the like initially dates back to my university days a bit before the mid 70's, and they were clearly around well before then.
Once CHS (and his successors) achieved a certain level of commercial success, the oils must have been analytically normalized, and from hence forth tweaked into conformity. Until then (due to the shear expense and rarity involved in such equipment, particularly early-on) it was all on CHS, and granted, he may have had an uncanny ability to tweak simply based upon taste and/or smell alone. But then again he is only human. Good point. Extracts may have been more for consistency than cost at one point. Chemically the same every time. |
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Apr 29, 2023 15:28:13 GMT 1
I know I have chirped this 100's times and will continually chirp it
in 1930's the Herbs and Spice would have been more ORGANIC then the most Organic Spices and Herbs in 2023 Just because the chemicals were not what we have and they Did everything BY HAND, ALL Milling was Stone Ground and NOT high speed Pulverized. There was quality control by the Growers and there was HEAVIER Regulations then the IRS and CRA.
The producers cleaned the Spices and Herbs and SOLD PURE PURE PURE Spices and Herbs. In 5 Major test in 2022 it was shown that the Spices and Herbs Currently have 25% fillers in the Majority of Packaging ?
Think about this from a common sense perspective, if you Gave your Wife or Husband 25% less time caring or affection they would NOT like it and you might be in divorce court. Same goes for 25% less ingredients in a recipe it DOES NOT work the same.
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