smallgree
Chef
Here is a vial recipe:
Posts: 1,393
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Post by smallgree on Sept 12, 2022 16:49:58 GMT 1
What matters is what Harland Sanders called them.
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Sept 12, 2022 17:30:49 GMT 1
Post by Silver on Sept 12, 2022 17:30:49 GMT 1
What matters is what Harland Sanders called them. But since we will never know this, the entire matter is irrelevant as to how many of the 11 were spices and how many were herbs. Just as for it being irrelevant as to haggling over what's in the vials.
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Sept 13, 2022 16:42:48 GMT 1
Post by deepfriednew101 on Sept 13, 2022 16:42:48 GMT 1
I Agree to disagree that what Spices were spices and what herbs were herbs ?
1905 FDA had the strictest Rules of any Era. they hit fines that were MASSIVE to ANY spice company Looks at the Fines they hit regarding Black Pepper NO ONE was immune to NO fines if they mixed fillers into the Black Pepper. They were more ruthless then the ATF in the Day.
the other issue is what was considered a Vegetable in the Day.
It's a Trial and Error of test
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Deleted
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Sept 13, 2022 21:56:22 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2022 21:56:22 GMT 1
Sorry guys, but I think we have very different approaches sometimes. I have presented two sources and a possible solution, which, at least in my opinion, makes kinda sense. Your responses are repetitive and empty.
What matters is what Harland Sanders called them
Empty phrase. Do you imply that CHS had his own, deviating definition? If you know what he called the single items and can prove me wrong, bring it. Would be honestly more than appreciated. If not, you are just throwing pebbles. But since we will never know this
We can close this thread or the entire forum then. Because we will never know anything. Talking of biases, have you ever heard of the ostrich effect? It causes people to avoid information that they perceive as potentially unpleasant. People could fear a demystification of their spice saint CHS, or avoid the unpleasant implication that CHS was not in line with botanical classifications. Maybe some people just don't want to know anything, because they enjoy the state of never and not knowing. Gives life a purpose.
The other issue is what was considered a Vegetable in the Day
You should have a closer look at the nice tin you recently posted. It lists onion under herbs and leaves. And it has various grinds of Herbs in different categories. Do you consider rubbed Sage a spice like McCormick did? Were they in line with the FDA here?
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Sept 14, 2022 2:25:51 GMT 1
Post by deepfriednew101 on Sept 14, 2022 2:25:51 GMT 1
11Serbs You like many have Great Points and Valued input.
The problem is everyone gets into certain ways of determining right or wrong and that applies to more then just 11 Spices and Herbs
Grasping at tidbits and straws of old information is ALL is at the finger tips.
I have some questions ?
Does a person rely on the Spices and Herbs that were available on common shelves in 1935 or 1940 Era ?
Does a Person worry about items that were from Sausage or Stuffing ?
Is 11 Really 11 or 13, 14 or 17 Spice and Herbs with or without elements salt in or out ?
Soft wheat Hard Wheat Some wheat No wheat Flour ?
Fat, Lard, Hydronated vegetable Oil ?
How Do we forum a sold guide line to follow ? Someone set a way and lets give it a try ?
The issue seems to Be 1 elusive Spice or Herb that misses the Aromatics or Aroma end of the Cook off with most.
11serbs what's your advice on a pattern to follow ?
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Post by Silver on Sept 14, 2022 10:18:59 GMT 1
I've never bothered to read a single book on the history of CHS or what evolved to become KFC. But I seem to recall hearing (second hand, via forum and/or internet perusing) of a reference wherein one of such books mentioned that his famous recipe contained a 'twist'. To me this implies that a simplistic view that demands all ingredients to be 30's era stock fare must permit a twist. With (to me) such a twist retaining the potential to lie fully within said stock fare, yet being an odd (or seemingly twisted) application of stock fare. To me, Anise Seed fits this profile as a viable 'twist' candidate. And Star-Anise fails to fit this profile. And (also to me) no twist means no means whereby to unlock the full expression of the note (extending 'note' here to the realms of both flavor and aroma, such as is my habit).
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Sept 14, 2022 10:39:37 GMT 1
Post by Silver on Sept 14, 2022 10:39:37 GMT 1
To me the door is still open to the potential for Anise Seed (Aniseed) as to its being a viable candidate for the infamous 1951-52 era "two handfuls" revelation.
Another thought is that if (subsequently sealed) lawsuit outcomes were to deny the addition of any single ingredient addition, said ingredient is quite logically most likely to be the 1951-52 revelatory 'aha moment' ingredient. This completely excludes MSG from consideration, as clearly it was never banned and everyone openly uses it.
It seems to me that CHS only hit the road in an attempt to franchise until not long after his aha moment of revelation/enlightenment. Either that, or his efforts to franchise only blossomed after this event.
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Deleted
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Sept 14, 2022 12:58:55 GMT 1
Silver likes this
Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2022 12:58:55 GMT 1
11Serbs You like many have Great Points and Valued input. The problem is everyone gets into certain ways of determining right or wrong and that applies to more then just 11 Spices and Herbs Grasping at tidbits and straws of old information is ALL is at the finger tips. I have some questions ? Does a person rely on the Spices and Herbs that were available on common shelves in 1935 or 1940 Era ? Does a Person worry about items that were from Sausage or Stuffing ? Is 11 Really 11 or 13, 14 or 17 Spice and Herbs with or without elements salt in or out ? Soft wheat Hard Wheat Some wheat No wheat Flour ? Fat, Lard, Hydronated vegetable Oil ? How Do we forum a sold guide line to follow ? Someone set a way and lets give it a try ? The issue seems to Be 1 elusive Spice or Herb that misses the Aromatics or Aroma end of the Cook off with most. 11serbs what's your advice on a pattern to follow ? I don't really have a pattern to be honest. Ultimately, I go by taste only. Vials, photographs and stories are only the cherry on the cake. Most often interesting and entertaining, but barely helpful. We do not start from scratch though. The usual suspects are already known in my opinion. For me it is just a question of the perfect ratio, maybe 2 or 3 questionable items, nuances. I do not limit myself. Maybe that is my pattern. People follow ideas and narratives. That's fine. But don't become slaves of your own interpretation thereof. I mean in the end I don't care personally. You can spend the next 20 yrs speculating about the Shelton numbers, butcher approved spices and vintage tins. Where did it take you though. Honest question. The only progress I see is when people actually get in the kitchen. Like Silver. In spite of his bag fetish
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Sept 14, 2022 13:08:19 GMT 1
Post by Silver on Sept 14, 2022 13:08:19 GMT 1
It seems to me that CHS only hit the road in an attempt to franchise until not long after his aha moment of revelation/enlightenment. Either that, or his efforts to franchise only blossomed after this event. Allow me to rephrase this quoted brief moment of incoherence: It seems to me that CHS only hit the road in an attempt to franchise soon after his 'aha moment' of revelation/enlightenment. Either that, or his efforts to franchise only blossomed after this event.
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Sept 14, 2022 13:15:05 GMT 1
Post by Silver on Sept 14, 2022 13:15:05 GMT 1
People follow ideas and narratives. That's fine. But don't become slaves of your own interpretation thereof. I mean in the end I don't care personally. You can spend the next 20 yrs speculating about the Shelton numbers, butcher approved spices and vintage tins. Where did it take you though. Honest question. The only progress I see is when people actually get in the kitchen. Like Silver. In spite of his bag fetish At least I openly admit that my best recipes have not been bag compliant, and I generally speculate that 'actual' bags contain ingredient reducers such as oleoresin extracts and autolyzed yeast extracts and the like. Plus 'I+G'.
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