flg
Souschef
Posts: 1,578
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Post by flg on Mar 1, 2023 0:06:37 GMT 1
I always thought we were trying to get back to the early franchise era flavor. Franchises opened up within only a couple to a few miles from my house in a few directions in 1959, when I was 4 years old. We went to 'Kenny Kings' (a local chain with multiple locations in Cleveland Ohio and the suburbs) often to get 'Kentucky Fried Chicken' when I was young. I think each person can build whatever recipe they feel the most connected to. It's likely the hardest to build a pre 60's OR as not too much to go on other than your memories of the taste. More info on the MK variants at this point. Which may or may not lead you back to the "vial version". Which could lead you back to the 50's-60's version. Not sure though at this point.
I can't see all the ingredients changing between the earliest MK we can find a label for and the Vial version. I'm sure a few did though. I worked out a possibility of some items being dropped when Bill and CHS developed 99x. But all speculation though.
Either way stating the version you are building would help others is my feeling.
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Post by Silver on Mar 1, 2023 0:18:35 GMT 1
This is admittedly a bit of a sidetrack, but I don't think that KFC ever cared one whit as to what was in the 99-X of MK. As far as I can tell the lawsuit which KFC served upon Marion Kay only requested (and was granted) that MK must cease and desist from supplying KFC franchises with 99-X. It doesn't appear that recipe formulations were ever discussed during the trial.
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Mar 1, 2023 0:45:45 GMT 1
One of the Biggest easily distinguishable situation is Trying to Nail down what once was. I have NO Problem with recollection of the Pre-1960'S Chicken and what came to Canada Originally. I have ate K.F.C. in more countries then one can imagine and the 1000 Hours of working on Spices and Herbs for food LIKE many others. The Original was a Red Color and the Bone area Often had a curing red around the Bone when cooked. there were distinctive Herbs and Pepper spec's More Herb in the Early days then the Pepper. Aroma was 2x what is NOW. the seasoning was Pronounced and Flavorful, You finished eating the chicken LONG LONG Long before you finished Licking your fingers Clean and dry from the Sticky Tacky Flavor Juicy Oil that made napkins stick to everything. A mother could have clean a baby diaper quicker then only could clean there hands from the Chicken on your Fingers and hands. The Buckets sometimes looked like a Valdez Oil Spill and the K.F.C. aroma was better then ANY KNOWN 30 Day air freshener, Often lingering K.F.C. chicken smell for 2 Days. You could Freeze the Original Chicken and Re-heat in the Oven (No Microwaves in the early Days) The re-heated chicken did suffer a little different eating experience then Fresh But it was so Flavorful you did not care. The coating was a Pillow soft style Fried Chicken NOT Crispy like NEW AGE CHICKEN the after 1972 crispy version Craze. On the re-heating the amount of the Moisture and Greasy on fingers was less then fresh BUT NOT like the Fresh chicken that was a definite change in the eating experience after re-heated. Flavor was still Great. what Do I see contributed to many changes to the NEW AGE CHICKEN. Oil - Beef Tallow Original Flour is Flour but they have gone to more Crispy chicken which is different then the soft Coating texture. Color was More Red the Golden Brown Your could see Herbs NOW you see Pepper specks or Fly Crap not sure? Greasy and still Greasy BUT like talking about original Krazy Glue and imitation NO COMPARISON Flavor was Over the Top, NOW its like Flour with synthic Processed taste and more flour then anything with salt. The Gravy was a Flavor packed Gravy NOT wall paper past flour like 2023. Chicken size has always stayed the same or similar BUT the Brine smoke ring is NOT there like the 1960's I have Photo's of the T.V. and Movie shows where K.F.C. chicken was used in some of the first color T.V. shows and Advertisements Non Photo shopped and it was rose red. Please leave your comments Photo Walton's T.V. show which C.H.S. was in one episode and supplied ALL the chicken EVERY Tuesday for the Set weekly. All the Chicken in the episodes which showed chicken was K.F.C.  |
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flg
Souschef
Posts: 1,578
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Post by flg on Mar 1, 2023 0:54:41 GMT 1
This is admittedly a bit of a sidetrack, but I don't think that KFC ever cared one whit as to what was in the 99-X of MK. As far as I can tell the lawsuit which KFC served upon Marion Kay only requested (and was granted) that MK must cease and desist from supplying KFC franchises with 99-X. It doesn't appear that recipe formulations were ever discussed during the trial. My question would be; where is the allspice and Red Pepper labeling on the more modern 99x. Coriander appears today in the order that once held Allspice and Red Pepper?
I guess they could have chosen not to label those and switched it up and listed coriander instead for some reason.
I think there is merit in looking into whether or not they had to make a change. MK could have always changed to save their own profit margins as well.
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Post by Silver on Mar 1, 2023 1:13:44 GMT 1
This is admittedly a bit of a sidetrack, but I don't think that KFC ever cared one whit as to what was in the 99-X of MK. As far as I can tell the lawsuit which KFC served upon Marion Kay only requested (and was granted) that MK must cease and desist from supplying KFC franchises with 99-X. It doesn't appear that recipe formulations were ever discussed during the trial. My question would be; where is the allspice and Red Pepper labeling on the more modern 99x. Coriander appears today in the order that once held Allspice and Red Pepper?
I guess they could have chosen not to label those and switched it up and listed coriander instead for some reason.
I think there is merit in looking into whether or not they had to make a change. MK could have always changed to save their own profit margins as well.
They may have changed over to using small quantities of Clove, Nutmeg, Mace, and Cinnamon instead of a large quantity of Allspice. This combo hands down works better than Allspice for me. And it may wind up costing less because overall less is used. |
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Post by Silver on Mar 1, 2023 1:18:47 GMT 1
For every 1 ounce of Allspice use instead:
0.25 grams Nutmeg
0.20 grams Clove
0.15 grams Mace
0.10 grams Cinnamon
0.70 grams replacing 1 gram seemingly has to be a cost saver. 30% less spice by weight. Plus you don't need to pay extra for it to be shipped from Jamaica. Plus you can add the saved 0.30 grams as something else whereby to potentially get even more benefit.
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Post by Silver on Mar 1, 2023 1:35:23 GMT 1
Oops, it's too late to edit the above, but it should have said:
For every 1 gram of Allspice use instead: ...
I can now use this opportunity to say that either 1 gram of Allspice or the (preferred) 0.70 gram alternative is just about ideal for a recipe scaled to 200 grams of Flour.
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Post by Silver on Mar 1, 2023 1:38:44 GMT 1
Marion Kay likely has no demanding imperative to strictly adhere to 11 H&S, and for that matter neither does KFC. The entire 11 H&S thing could be a mythical legend. And it easily could throw everyone off the trail for decades.
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Mar 1, 2023 3:25:38 GMT 1
I would think the risk they are taking with False representation is to high world wide if there is NOT 11 Herbs and Spices in the Original.
I would comment this ? In 1966 when KFC NEW AGE and Famous Fried Chicken were in the courts. The internet and K.F.C copycat was NOT a World Wide Phenomenon it is currently world wide and K.F.C. was NOT a 25 Billion Dollar Mega Corporation.
K.F.C. alleged that Famous Fried Chicken was infringing on the 11 Herbs and Spice Recipe The Same thing they Did with Marion Kay Bill s also Pat from Graces Perfect Blend and Tommy and Cherry S. THERE WAS NEVER A AFFIDAVIT that said there was NOT 11 Herbs and Spices. they said there was 11 Herbs and Spices.
I guess its a Jack and the bean stock battle ? It has been Ruled in Court that K.F.C. Does NOT have to disclose the recipe and a Judge may NOT be able to force them to disclose the recipe.
When K.F.C. and C.H.S. went toe to toe it was a different Fight C.H.S. has a contract they could NOT change the recipe which was for a Recipe founded on 11 Herbs and Spices ?
Myth or NOT ? you guess
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Post by Chickenman on Mar 1, 2023 6:39:21 GMT 1
Marion Kay likely has no demanding imperative to strictly adhere to 11 H&S, and for that matter neither does KFC. The entire 11 H&S thing could be a mythical legend. And it easily could throw everyone off the trail for decades. There is 100% 11 herbs/spices in the recipe and maybe a few more. You cannot create a recipe as good as Colonel Sanders Original Recipe with only say 8 herbs/spices. I strongly believe there is more than 11 herbs/spices in the recipe, but i keep asking myself "why would he call it 11 if there's more than 11" The only thing that makes sense is he only counts actual herbs/spices as part of that 11 and not vegetables like garlic, or onion. Obviously the biggest reason to call it 11 is because it sounds better in advertising. It sounds even better than if you said "15 herbs and spices" but i still think it's a strange claim to make if it actually contains more than 11 unless some of the extras aren't technically spices. |
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