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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2021 18:32:47 GMT 1
Interesting about Rosemary as a lot of folks feel it is in there. As far as savory and the comment about it being in the Canadian recipe (Glen and Friends). Based on below, perhaps a regional substitute as summer savory is everywhere here. While some find it hard to get. Savory Savory has a similar flavor to rosemary and works wonderfully as a substitute. You can use either fresh savory, or dried savory to replace rosemary in any recipe in a 1:1 ratio. The only downside to savory is that it's not a commonly used herb, therefore you may not have it on hand or available to you. Check out the video section on the forum. I posted a clip where KFC literally confirms Rosemary and Thyme. I personally think that Savory and Thyme are much closer than Rosemary and Savory. I used Rosemary a lot in my recipes and always like it. Goes well with Sage. I stopped using Rosemary because of the vials really. I thought it could only be 3 proper herbs. But then I realised that Vial H, a non-greenish ingredient, could very well be Sage. Then I came across these findings and it makes even more sense now. 4 Herbs absolutely possible.  |
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Post by Silver on Dec 9, 2021 19:15:57 GMT 1
This exemplifies the huge problem of attempting to equate volumes to weights. No two volume to weight attempts will match. Too many unknowns as to densities.
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Post by Silver on Dec 9, 2021 19:25:19 GMT 1
I grind my own garden grown and then either air hung to dry or dehydrator dried Sage leaves, and it results in Sage that is the lightest in weight and fluffiest by volume of any of my Herbs/Spices collection.
The Walmart Organic (processed and packaged by the odd sounding 'Red Monkey' Company or Corporation) which you have pictured gives the appearance of being potentially way more dense and definitely more brown than green. Mine from our garden is distinctly green.
I really like the Walmart Organic (Red Monkey) spices overall.
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flg
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Post by flg on Dec 9, 2021 23:36:20 GMT 1
Very good work.
I also put some conversion to grams as well and as Silver states it really is just a good guess. I was able to get the total to about 13-14 grams short. Which holds weight for me as the missing 13g of extra salt. It also flirts very close to some of the weights I tend to stick with and close to my "less is more" in weights that I have been working on. With couple notable exceptions for me any way. That is to say coriander and ginger. I have held fast on about .5g of each in a 10g spice recipe. The scale using this recipe is double that to around 1g of each in a 10g recipe. That is huge difference I think.
Perhaps lends some credibility to the story that CHS could tell corporate was using a cheaper ginger product and lead him to add extra seasoning to the flour.
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flg
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Post by flg on Dec 10, 2021 0:18:02 GMT 1
Took a stab at rounding and I weighted a couple of spices in particular dried Thyme and dried Rosemary (not ground). Then what I did was reorder them not only by weight. But also using the ingredient listing on the 26oz bag.
So MSG, Herbs & Spices, Salt, Garlic
It possibly could look like this
MSG 9g (or more)
White pepper 2.25g
Black pepper 2g
Coriander 1g
Ginger 1g
Rosemary (dried)0.4g
Sage (ground) 0.4g
Chili powder 0.25g
Allspice 0.2g
Cloves 0.2g
Marjoram 0.2g
Thyme (dried) 0.2g
Salt 1.3g
Garlic powder 0.6g
Total of all H&S plus Salt and Garlic = 10g plus MSG
Using the formula from the 26oz bag were by MSG weight is to be higher than the total of all H&S (exclude extra Salt and Garlic). MSG should be set higher than 8g. So I just choose 9g. Could be more.
Clearly exceeds the 26oz bag if you follow the ingredient listing for the MSG weight. It fits at 3g MSG though.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2021 0:56:39 GMT 1
I weighted every single item myself now, using regular 'european' table- and teaspoons. I just don't trust these conversion websites anymore. The recipe looks very neat and solid. The higher amount of Ginger is the only surprise here. I used the same amount of Ginger and Coriander before, just like most I guess.
But like I said before, Ginger is the densest item of all and if CHS used the same amount of tablespoons, it must be much higher in weight than Coriander. But that is just a guess of course. But I have at least two ingredients with 2 tbs each in the list, and I don't know if any other pair would fit better than ginger and coriander. This is the formula I have now mixed and which I will try in the next couple of days.
18,50 white pepper
18,50 black pepper
15,00 ginger
12,00 coriander
10,00 sage
6,00 garlic powder
5,00 rosemary
3,50 thyme
3,50 marjoram
2,75 chilli powder
2,75 cloves
2,50 allspice
I will start with 4 grams per 100 grams of flour and work my wy up if necessary. The breading smells delicious and very well balanced.
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flg
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Post by flg on Dec 10, 2021 1:16:05 GMT 1
I weighted every single item myself now, using regular 'european' table- and teaspoons. I just don't trust these conversion websites anymore. The recipe looks very neat and solid. The higher amount of Ginger is the only surprise here. I used the same amount of Ginger and Coriander before, just like most I guess. But like I said before, Ginger is the densest item of all and if CHS used the same amount of tablespoons, it must be much higher in weight than Coriander. But that is just a guess of course. But I have at least two ingredients with 2 tbs each in the list, and I don't know if any other pair would fit better than ginger and coriander. This is the formula I have now mixed and which I will try in the next couple of days. 18,50 white pepper 18,50 black pepper 15,00 ginger 12,00 coriander 10,00 sage 6,00 garlic powder 5,00 rosemary 3,50 thyme 3,50 marjoram 2,75 chilli powder 2,75 cloves 2,50 allspice I will start with 4 grams per 100 grams of flour and work my wy up if necessary. The breading smells delicious and very well balanced. Please share your results. I think the ingredient list is reasonable. Working out what the weights are and spice to flour ratio is worth the effort on this one. |
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Post by Silver on Dec 10, 2021 1:58:41 GMT 1
I weighted every single item myself now, using regular 'european' table- and teaspoons. I just don't trust these conversion websites anymore. The recipe looks very neat and solid. The higher amount of Ginger is the only surprise here. I used the same amount of Ginger and Coriander before, just like most I guess. But like I said before, Ginger is the densest item of all and if CHS used the same amount of tablespoons, it must be much higher in weight than Coriander. But that is just a guess of course. But I have at least two ingredients with 2 tbs each in the list, and I don't know if any other pair would fit better than ginger and coriander. This is the formula I have now mixed and which I will try in the next couple of days. 18,50 white pepper 18,50 black pepper 15,00 ginger 12,00 coriander 10,00 sage 6,00 garlic powder 5,00 rosemary 3,50 thyme 3,50 marjoram 2,75 chilli powder 2,75 cloves 2,50 allspice I will start with 4 grams per 100 grams of flour and work my wy up if necessary. The breading smells delicious and very well balanced. I'm hoping that you hit a home-run that sails clear out of the ballpark! |
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flg
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Post by flg on Dec 10, 2021 16:34:24 GMT 1
I went back to look at my "less is more" recipe and with the exception of Savory/Rosemary and Chili Powder/Red pepper&Cayenne. When I double the amounts of each of the Herbs and Spices (not peppers or salt). I end up with a very, almost too close match to the conversion I posted above that has some rounding in it. Now the "less is more" was based on using ratios out of my 1930's spice and seasoning manual. So I find that to also lend some validation to Eastfrisian's work.
Even though I have used some of these weights before. Never in relation to this amount of Coriander and Ginger.
The other thing I find interesting is in the Story Winston Shelton gives. He says: “He basically started telling me to measure 20 grams of this herb and 10 grams of that spice and so on,” Shelton says. “And when he got through, he told me it would all add up to 100 grams. Then he said I should take that and mix it with a certain amount of soft winter wheat flour and that would be it.”
While I am not set on the accuracy of the compete statement. I focused on the numbers. Later when he states 13g short. It's just not a random number you pick. In a 100g recipe I have always been able to find or could find one of the pepper's at 20g. But the 10g item(s) always was the problem. With the rough conversion you have the 20g in one or both peppers and now the 10g in coriander and ginger.
Pluses for me so far:
Roughly 13g short
Ratios of H&S line up to poultry dressing recipe I worked "less is more" against
100g recipe contains 20g and 10g items
As far as the comment from the Todd Wilbur show about his mom telling him Sage and Savory makes good chicken. I'll try Rosemary, but my guess is either Savory or Rosemary will be very close and maybe not noticeable in any real way in cooked KFC. Different areas may use one over the other.
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Dec 10, 2021 16:59:21 GMT 1
Parsley, Sage, Rosemary, Thyme
were such a staple of the 1950 there was more then one song with reference to the spices
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