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Post by Silver on Feb 14, 2022 11:55:07 GMT 1
My speculation as to the evolution of the KFC "bags": 7.5 grams MSG + 5.4 grams Pepper + 4.5 grams Salt + 2.6 grams other H&S = 20 grams = scaled compliance with the 40 ounce bag. 3.25 grams MSG + 5.4 grams Pepper + 4.5 grams Salt + 2.6 grams other H&S + 0.25 grams 'I+G' = 16 grams = scaled compliance with the 32 ounce bag. The introduction of various extracts = the only method for full compliance with the 26 ounce bag. I'm coming to the conclusion that the right amount of H&S (not pepper) is in that 2.5 to 2.7g range as well. I think that's part of the issue. What I hear is you need to jack up the H&S, lots of it is needed. In 19XX they laid it on with the most mythical quality of spices available.... Were as the problem that has plagued me the most. Is having too much H&S flavor come through.
I tend to agree more with your speculative formula above. It may make sense that the extracts largely come from the pepper block. If you get the volume of pepper to about half what you have it could fit into a 26 ounce bag.
I've quite similarly concluded that when it comes to chasing the elusive 'note' the following (small sampling) are merely diversionary falsehoods that will inevitably throw you off the trail: 1) Spices today are up to about 20-30% less spicy than the spices of circa 1930-1940. Therefore up to 20-30% more spices are required now vs. then. (I'm including Herbs under the Spice umbrella here) 2) More H&S is clearly better. Huge spice to flour ratios are the path to success in capturing the elusive 'note'. 3) The various evolutionary weights of 'bags' are intended to be added to 18 Lbs. (or 10 Lbs., etc..., as long as its less than 25 Lbs.) of flour as opposed to 25 Lbs. of flour. 4) Bags are the invention of corporate KFC post the sale of the company by CHS. (the 26 ounce bag may be the exception here) 5) I know the original recipe. (using here the generic and all encompassing 'I') 6) I've discovered the original recipe. (using here the generic and all encompassing 'I've') |
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Feb 14, 2022 18:50:32 GMT 1
Post by deepfriednew101 on Feb 14, 2022 18:50:32 GMT 1
My ONLY comment is this
If you have bought ANY amount of large spices from a wholesale of Spice supplier.
ANY of the Old employees or Old hands can tell you the spices have changed from the 1950's and earlier
The Growing process and harvesting process and milling have ALL changed
it has diminished the quality of Spices and Herbs
Television shows like 60 Minutes and other have done spots about how big the Spice and Herb Trade is and how its changed. On some show's they show the way the Spices and Herbs are STRETCHED by adding ground stalk of fillers
I guess if there is NO difference in SPICES or HERBS
there is NO need for Organic spices and herbs to be grown and they don't promote a distinguishable difference in quality.
Based on these articles and studies it shows the Spices and Herbs have lost quality and it has happen since the Trade law changes in 1980's
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maceme
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Sept 26, 2022 2:35:59 GMT 1
Post by maceme on Sept 26, 2022 2:35:59 GMT 1
I’ve been looking at the napkin recently, and while the latest picture identification I saw has merit, I think there is enough ambiguity that I’d suggest that the following changes are possible:
Clove -> star anise shrub - the separated leaves are appropriate for this, and some form of anise flavor seems needed, and the images don’t work well for fennel or anise.
Pepper -> allspice berries (allspice berries have the prominent stem dimple), and I currently think there are more than 11 ingredients, and no pepper in the Vials.
Capsicum -> clove (clove buds seems to push out of the center sprig in many photos I’ve seen). The leaves themselves work well for marjoram and oregano, but the bud in the middle limits that. I don’t think there is pepper shown In the vials.
Nutmeg - the lower 1/3 of the nutmeg is a bit darker, which might indicate using both nutmeg and mace.
Other thoughts:
Thyme -> bay leaf or basil - less sure of this, but the curved end of a single leaf is certainly very reminiscent of bay or basil. If it is thyme, it is broad leaf thyme, vs sprig thyme. If rosemary is the “v’s”in the center, there might be no savory, thyme, or marjoram.
I know some of these have been considered before.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2022 9:43:20 GMT 1
I’ve been looking at the napkin recently, and while the latest picture identification I saw has merit, I think there is enough ambiguity that I’d suggest that the following changes are possible: Clove -> star anise shrub - the separated leaves are appropriate for this, and some form of anise flavor seems needed, and the images don’t work well for fennel or anise. Pepper -> allspice berries (allspice berries have the prominent stem dimple), and I currently think there are more than 11 ingredients, and no pepper in the Vials. Capsicum -> clove (clove buds seems to push out of the center sprig in many photos I’ve seen). The leaves themselves work well for marjoram and oregano, but the bud in the middle limits that. I don’t think there is pepper shown In the vials. Nutmeg - the lower 1/3 of the nutmeg is a bit darker, which might indicate using both nutmeg and mace. Other thoughts: Thyme -> bay leaf or basil - less sure of this, but the curved end of a single leaf is certainly very reminiscent of bay or basil. If it is thyme, it is broad leaf thyme, vs sprig thyme. If rosemary is the “v’s”in the center, there might be no savory, thyme, or marjoram. I know some of these have been considered before. I am currently working on the napkin again. The artist did a great job. Interesting point, could be Star Anise in deed. I ruled it out because I think Cloves is definitively in the OR and no other sketch would match so well. The capsicum I am very sure is a chili plant. Look at the blossom and the shape structure of the leaves. But of course, this is just my take on it.  As of now, I would say that the berries are pepper. I just struggle with the idea of having allspice in the recipe when you already have cloves, nutmeg/mace and cardamom. Also not a fan of Vial K not being Pepper honestly. |
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maceme
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Post by maceme on Sept 26, 2022 15:09:00 GMT 1
Yes, I agree about the artists rendering - quite impressive. Regarding Vial K, my own take has varied over time, and initially I was also in the pepper camp, and then oregano, due to to leaf like shape near the bottom, and the strong contrast. But them as I saw more recipes and greater indications that cardamom was in the mix, and also more indications (some from KFC themselves) that there were more than 11 ingredients, I realized that roughly cracked and ground cardamom seed fits the characteristics we see in Vial K, and that the vials were likely only herbs and spices, and not salt, pepper, msg, leavening, paprika, additional vegetables, or seasoned salts. The high contrast, the triangularish shapes, etc. are key characteristics for how the seeds crack, and grind, I think. None of the other vials worked as well for it, in my opinion. marionkay.com/product/cardamom-ground/handfulandapinch.com/ground-cardamom-seeds-close-up/sheffieldspices.com/product/ground-cardamom-seed/I would like to fit savory into the napkin picture, as that is what I feel vial J is. The item that looks like a seed in the vial is the same look you get when you crumble dried savory and what remains of a ball end from a small branch. I once thought this was paprika, but now realize this item is a light herb, and dark reddish / brownish, which also fits dried savory. In the napkin, it would likely have to be the single leaf, or we would have to discard rosemary, which I’m not ready to do, flavor wise. www.dreamstime.com/stock-photo-savory-leaves-white-background-image41270725#_This is not a typical savory leaf image, in my opinion, but works pretty well. Also, see the dried savory branches in the back right of this photo of Pepperidge farm stuffing from older times: www.flickr.com/photos/113830604@N05/52349931802/There is a story of CHS crumbling a branch of some type into his recipe when making his chicken. There are a few candidates, but savory is one, and it is a well known dressing ingredient. |
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Sept 26, 2022 18:45:01 GMT 1
Post by Silver on Sept 26, 2022 18:45:01 GMT 1
I am currently working on the napkin again. The artist did a great job. Interesting point, could be Star Anise in deed. I ruled it out because I think Cloves is definitively in the OR and no other sketch would match so well. The capsicum I am very sure is a chili plant. Look at the blossom and the shape structure of the leaves. But of course, this is just my take on it. I seem to have lost my saved download of the (Japanese?) napkin image. Would you kindly re-post it here so I can capture it. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2022 20:21:00 GMT 1
I am currently working on the napkin again. The artist did a great job. Interesting point, could be Star Anise in deed. I ruled it out because I think Cloves is definitively in the OR and no other sketch would match so well. The capsicum I am very sure is a chili plant. Look at the blossom and the shape structure of the leaves. But of course, this is just my take on it. I seem to have lost my saved download of the (Japanese?) napkin image. Would you kindly re-post it here so I can capture it.  |
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Sept 26, 2022 21:30:52 GMT 1
Post by Silver on Sept 26, 2022 21:30:52 GMT 1
Thank you kindly!
The upper right-hand corner does indeed appear to be Star Anise.
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Deleted
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Sept 26, 2022 21:42:35 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2022 21:42:35 GMT 1
Thank you kindly! The upper right-hand corner does indeed appear to be Star Anise. Only the item left to the "K" could be Star Anise. I think it is Clove. The upper right-hand item is capsicum. Please compare both plants. Capsicum leaves have a totally different shape. |
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Sept 26, 2022 21:52:13 GMT 1
Post by Silver on Sept 26, 2022 21:52:13 GMT 1
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