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Post by Silver on Jul 4, 2021 11:42:44 GMT 1
I posted my latest updated recipe attempt to the wrong forum yesterday, so I'm re-posting it here today. I've switched from iteration numbers to recipe dates as of this one.
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Post by Silver on Jul 11, 2021 11:17:48 GMT 1
We deep fried yesterday (true deep frying this time, not air frying) with the addition of 5 grams of Dextrose (pure corn sugar powder) to the mix, and the consensus was that it improved the flavor while adding no apparent sweetness. 5 grams was exactly 2% by weight of the sum total for the flour, salt, and spices in the coating mix.
This now has me wondering if adding some corn syrup to the milk and egg wash (as opposed to adding Dextrose powder to the flour mix) might work similarly, while also helping the mix adhere to the chicken.
Note: Corn syrup has vanilla and salt in it. Dextrose powder does not...
BTW, with our deep fryer's dial set at 330 degrees F., all chicken pieces reached satisfactory doneness after 14 minutes in the deep fryer. No pressure, just a wide open to the atmosphere electric deep fryer that is about 30 years old. We tried 13 minutes, and the thighs needed 14 minutes, though other pieces were adequately done at 13 minutes. 14 minutes worked for all pieces.
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Post by Silver on Jul 11, 2021 11:19:06 GMT 1
How far can Dextrose be pushed before it is detected as to sweetness?
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Jul 11, 2021 14:39:59 GMT 1
There are many restaurant's that cook open fryer method, they cook at a little higher start temperatures typically 350 degrees BUT there Open Fryers ( Deep Fryer commercial ) are a quick recovery deep fryer. I have heard some people cook for as long as 18 Minutes. The time will very on size of the chicken also, for fully cooked. Remember to compare cooking times with 1935's times CHS mentions in Books etc DO NOT reflect ANY cooking times NOW as we raise and Harvest the chicken different then 1935's era. CHS had Birds that were younger and typically smaller then Birds of 2020-2021 Year.
Marinade and Processing is much different also to moisten, and preserve the birds from processor. So time is subjective to your equipment BUT I still recommend a TWO STAGE cooking like CHS start high to set the coating and color the coating then drop temp for internal cooking, once the BROWNING as CHS called it occurs the color while cooking does NOT change this has been proven by scientific methods over and over that once the Searing and browning sets the color will only deepen 10% in the internal cooking stage.
Remember that most Bird once breaded and season ONLY take on
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Jul 11, 2021 15:36:52 GMT 1
Remember that most breading ONLY take on a 12% coating for weight.
and in commercial applications they are using a adhesive or adhesive's are used in the coating to help bind the season to the flour and chicken. corn starch's, gelatin, egg powder, and other whey powders all create a adhesive.
In 1930's CHS said the Milk n Egg Warsh help the coating stick to areas with NO skin. The use of Cream of Tarter also helps this process with the air pockets created or meringue effect, The china reverse showed grape compound which is a cream of tarter is a grape, compound.
in the Milk n Egg warsh that the Health Boards HATE in chicken coating use BUT acceptable in French Toast ? Many have infused the mixture with Vanilla, Butter, Corn Syrup, Pancake Syrup, Sugar, for Flavor and also to stick to DAY old dried bread. The French Chefs used this more then many others.
I personally many item in this stage when using Milk n Eggs warsh. I add Cream of Tarter, 11 Herbs and Spices, Vanilla, Butter, and a Granular sugar, or sweet liquid syrup, I have tried Honey on a few times. ALL to get a adhesive.
When the engineers help Brown and Massey with the coating and the issue with coating binding, and refining it, they used a one step powder. Dream Whip Powder mix. ( Simple name for it ) it has ALL the items is a powder form they could add to flour.
the BIG step that I will stand on that people do not want to hear. the chicken needs to go from the Brine into the flour, get a dusting of flour and left for 5 minutes. this allows the chicken to get a little binder. Then dipped into the Milk n Egg warsh and then a 7 step seasoning flour coating where its pressed into the chicken and tumbled 7 times. THIS IS NOT a double coating a double coating would be dumped into the Milk n Egg Warsh 2 times.
NO many people see a Milk n Egg warsh with people who put the chick in the warsh for a few seconds and immediately into the flour DO NOT be afraid to leave chicken in the Milk and Egg warsh Meringue for a minute or more and mix the chicken around, the other issue is in HOME cooking every one ONLY uses 2 cups of flour compared to 10LBS in a commercial plastic LUG. its easier to press flour into the chicken with a 7 fold and scoop method in a BIG container then a Tupperware container. USE a plastic bag like shake n bake method and squeeze your flour hard into the chicken with your hand on the outside of the plastic bag. Keeps your hands cleaner BUT you can force flour onto chicken with hand force, while stirring seasoning in the plastic bag.
I agree with your use of adhesive in Milk and Egg Warsh as for a exact amount it will vary with the type of sweetener for a % BUT remember the sweetener in higher % usually do not sweeten much with a 1 or 2 % increase ( simple test is try it in WATER and taste it with a 1 or 2 % change BUT a 1 or 2 % change can effect the BURN and Color while cooking much quicker then a sweetening effect. Sweeteners do burn and are more volatile typically in hot oils and hot surface?
its like a Air Fryer you can over cook the coating quicker in a air fryer then a open fryer typically as the air fryer do not drop the temp as quick and have a quicker recovery time to temp then oil bath.
DO NOT be afraid to season the flour the % of seasoning in the flour is more important then % of sweetener. YES you can over sweeten
the NOTE for KFC is created more from the Pepper, Sage, Savory, Garlic and Onion, Mace KFC uses Vegetable flakes sweet Bell Peppers Dill Parsley Rosemary which can give Aroma depth also BUT the YEAST is a kicker for added aroma. MAKE a bread with NO yeast and a Yeast and see the smell difference.
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Post by Silver on Jul 12, 2021 20:47:06 GMT 1
I'm beginning to suspect that my Allspice (which I purchased at an Amish bulk foods store) is potentially nothing more than a blend of cinnamon, nutmeg, and cloves, and that therefore it may not be real Allspice. Should I toss it out and replace it with real Allspice?
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Post by Silver on Jul 12, 2021 21:08:21 GMT 1
We just ate some of the leftover (real) deep fried chicken we made last Saturday, and eventually I sprinkled some additional MSG, some additional table salt, and some coarse ground black pepper onto it, whereby it tasted better. But after sprinkling a very tiny amount of finely ground red cayenne pepper on it, it really started to come around. This means the following:
1) The black pepper we reduced clearly needs to be bumped back up by some amount. And it needs to be a combination of fine and course ground. 2) It still needs more salt. 3) It still needs more MSG. 4) It benefits noticeably from a small amount of cayenne added to it, so this will go back into the spice mix, but not a lot of it. 5) To accommodate all of the above changes, once again the overall quantity of the remaining spices will need to be lowered. An ongoing trend...
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Post by Silver on Jul 19, 2021 12:01:28 GMT 1
My latest recipe derivation. Continuing my ongoing trend of reducing spices, increasing salt, and increasing MSG. All comments and criticism are welcome. Note: My general intent is that Corn Starch + Cream Of Tartar + Baking Soda + All Purpose Flour ~= Cake Flour.
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flg
Souschef
Posts: 1,578
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Post by flg on Jul 19, 2021 13:23:34 GMT 1
Based on my last batch your overall pepper amount seems right. I think some folks argue white should out weigh black pepper. But I have seen it listed the other way as well so who knows. but 5g into 200g of flour mixture I feel is right there. Celery Salt at 2.0g just feels high to me. Not saying it is but I have been thinking along the lines that Onion, Garlic and Celery Salt could have started from a brand of seasoning salt. So what would be a good ratio of those 3 if making your own seasoning salt so one doesn't out flavor the other. Maybe that's an experiment onto it's own?
Just my thoughts.
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flg
Souschef
Posts: 1,578
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Post by flg on Jul 19, 2021 13:31:13 GMT 1
Add to my above:
I feel like creating the Celery, Garlic and Onion Salt combination and then adding somewhere between 1.5g and 2g total of that to the mix is what I may try. I used 1.5g of a generic seasoning salt to my last batch, which is missing Celery Salt but clearly has the other 2 ingredients
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