smallgree
Chef
Here is a vial recipe:
Posts: 1,416
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Post by smallgree on Oct 10, 2022 2:46:18 GMT 1
That is just an add for toothpaste. It doesn't mean that you could just drive down to the store and buy MSG. I know it was sold wholesale to restaurants, but not in the supermarkets. Retail began in 1952. ["gourmet powder" aka MSG]. Prove it.
This is football day. You kind of drifted there. Make your proof, and then I'll check it out.
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maceme
Kitchen Assistent
Posts: 220
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Post by maceme on Oct 10, 2022 4:05:50 GMT 1
That is just an add for toothpaste. It doesn't mean that you could just drive down to the store and buy MSG. I know it was sold wholesale to restaurants, but not in the supermarkets. Retail began in 1952. ["gourmet powder" aka MSG]. Prove it. This is football day. You kind of drifted there. Make your proof, and then I'll check it out. Well, what was posted was better than hand waving or discussing toothpaste. - retail advertisements for MSG to the consumer. I can’t tell if they are counterfeit or mislabeled - that is your burden. One didn’t advertise ghost products then to my knowledge. Here is another: www.ebay.com/itm/224936007119Gourmet Powder is in the Kentucky Kitchens book. The pages were posted previously in the other forum. Jwoz has a copy and there was discussion. I’ve looked at the relevant pages in for sale copies. Here is some more info. 1948 (March) Symposium: “Flavor and Acceptability of Monosodium Glutamate” held in Chicago, sponsored by the Quartermaster Food and Container Institute of the US Armed Forces and the Industrial Associates of that Institute, attended by more than 120 food technologists. This likely raised awareness of MSG even more throughout the food and restaurant industry. Later that year, Readers Digest Dec. 1948 discussed MSG, which is referred to in the Kentucky Kitchens book. archive.org/details/sim_readers-digest_1948_53_indexHere is the relevant page from Kentucky Kitchens, which was first published in 1949. books.google.com/books?id=WL0DttrGzsIC&pg=PA17&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false He was traveling in Chicago and major cities. He was a already director of the National association, and head of the Kentucky Association by 1950, from what I can tell. He’d been to Chicago or a major city at least every year for many years. He’d spent time in huge kitchens. He’d met industry players and run for office. The governor stopped by. It doesn’t matter if you or your family didn't see it or use MSG - *he* could have seen or heard about the upcoming trends in the normal course of business. And by the time he cooked for Pete, you admit it was in supermarkets. So what exactly is the concern with an earlier date for MSG? He could arrange for 500 chicken dinners, but didn’t have access to MSG because it was only a restaurant supply item in your view? I think it was both available retail and he had easy access to restaurant supplies, when at home. So a 1950 activity is possible. Here is another drift. More in keeping with the topic of the thread. The National restaurant convention was in Hawaii in 1949 -topic: Taro - a very interesting vegetable root - smells a bit like vanilla and custard and provides sweetness for Maillard. Pepperall and pepperoyal first use was 1948, by Stange and Griffith, respectively. Red Star was first to manufacture dried nutritional yeast flakes in 1950 Just some interesting alternate two handfuls items.
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Oct 10, 2022 12:59:56 GMT 1
There were 3 Docks Noe' Owned
the first One was NOT large enough for the Larger Fairy Boats as it was to far into the loop and was ONLY used FOR SMALL boating vessels.
History Shows that the Ferry Boats who hauled upwards of 200 People ONLY started after 1954/1955 Boating season WHEN Noe opened that Largest Dock of that season which was Dock 2 & 3 NOT DOCK 1 in 1951/1952 original launches on Cumberland lake usage ?
Maceme Great added detail on MSG
I only add my input on the Cumberland Lake and the Boating Association History help when we inquired about the Large Boat trips & inquired about the Noe Docks as CHS said he was asked By Noe to cook the 500 Pieces of chicken.
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maceme
Kitchen Assistent
Posts: 220
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Post by maceme on Oct 10, 2022 16:25:53 GMT 1
There were 3 Docks Noe' Owned the first One was NOT large enough for the Larger Fairy Boats as it was to far into the loop and was ONLY used FOR SMALL boating vessels. History Shows that the Ferry Boats who hauled upwards of 200 People ONLY started after 1954/1955 Boating season WHEN Noe opened that Largest Dock of that season which was Dock 2 & 3 NOT DOCK 1 in 1951/1952 original launches on Cumberland lake usage ? Maceme Great added detail on MSG I only add my input on the Cumberland Lake and the Boating Association History help when we inquired about the Large Boat trips & inquired about the Noe Docks as CHS said he was asked By Noe to cook the 500 Pieces of chicken. I know Noe owned at least two. There was a government owned Ferry that crossed the river that stopped operating around 1952. It isn’t 100% clear to me what was happening that day. Was it a dam tour? A river tour? Was a modern ferry even involved? I don’t know a steamboat name from then.
Page 25 of the Nov,. 1950 courier-journal (you can see the headline for free), mentions that a Towboat was bought for the Rowena Ferry, which was a very practical, open, flat style, not something you might picture with a paddle wheel, and a bit more like a barge, with room for about 6 cars or as many people as dared. Here is the current version, which is similar: www.monroecountykytourism.com/cumberland-river-ferry.html
Here is an account of the filling of the lake: www.somerset-kentucky.com/news/looking-back-at-the-birth-of-lake-cumberland/article_35f3a55c-93b1-5030-8283-421648164e48.html
I agree if it was Noe’s #2, it was as late as 1954, which would be a well after Pete, but before the 2nd US franchise, later that year. Margaret returned in July that year with brochures.
Here is the link:
www.newspapers.com/newspage/108451057/
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smallgree
Chef
Here is a vial recipe:
Posts: 1,416
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Post by smallgree on Oct 10, 2022 18:04:14 GMT 1
Doesn't really matter.
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maceme
Kitchen Assistent
Posts: 220
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Post by maceme on Oct 15, 2022 0:20:07 GMT 1
I think this is about the last info from @chickenman before he promised to stop posting, or post new info, taking into account a few changes mentioned and some guesses. I arguably count 9 herb and spice ingredients.
There is no info included on other adjuncts, custard/vanilla, egg/milk, molasses, special peppers, yeasts, leavening agents etc. and “surprises”. This aligns fairly well with my current line up, except I tend to have more ingredients, use a lot more pepper and ginger, and haven’t tested chives yet.
Ingredient TSP (AUSTRALIAN) (METRIC) (interpreted and estimated) Caraway (1) 0.22 Ginger (2) 1.5 ish Nutmeg (3) 0.22 Fennel (4) 0.5 Cloves (5) 0.22 Cardamom (6) 0.4 Garlic Powder 0.5 Ancho Chili 0.5 Sage (7) 0.4, possibly more. Marjoram (8) 0.4 Savory (9) 0.25 type unknown Chives 0.5 White Pepper 2.5 Black Pepper 1.5 MSG 1 TSP FLOUR 280 G
comments welcome…
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Post by Silver on Oct 15, 2022 2:25:36 GMT 1
Nothing radical there.
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Oct 15, 2022 15:35:47 GMT 1
maceme He also Printed this recipe which might work out to the .22 or .4 number system on the version you printed This one is easier to figure out LOL LOL
Chickenman Recipe
Base ingredients:
Flour, I don't measure the flour, i just fill it up to the same line in this mug i have but im pretty sure it's about 300g or more. 1 Tsp Msg. 2 Tsp Salt. 1.5 Tsp Sarawak White pepper, 1 Tsp Vietnam White pepper.
I find sarawak white pepper to be too chickeny in flavour but i also find vietnam white pepper to be too bitter or pungent on it's own but combining both made the most perfect white pepper i have ever tried.
1.5 Tsp Telicherry black pepper on coarse side.
The 11 herbs and spices:
1.Caraway seed bit less than 1/4tsp 2.Ginger 1 tsp 3.Nutmeg bit less than 1/4tsp 4.Fennel seed 1/2 Tsp 5.Allspice bit less than 1/4tsp 6.Garlic powder 1/2tsp 7.Ancho chilli powder 1/2tsp and just a touch of cayenne 8.Sage 1/2tsp (might put this back up to 1tsp) 9.Oregano bit more than 1/4tsp 10.Savory 1/4tsp 11.Bay leaves bit more than 1/4tsp 12.Chives 1/2tsp
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flg
Souschef
Posts: 1,578
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Post by flg on Oct 15, 2022 21:03:34 GMT 1
Nothing to see here. Not enough salt, pepper and as Silver mentioned. Normal set of ingredients. I don't for one minute think he figured out anything TBH. Easy for me to say I figured it out and disappear. Harder for me to say I figured it out. And then prove it to a community of diehard KFC freaks. Everything I suggest would be challenged. Specially if I go over a 26oz magical line. Or don't have the one spice or herb everyone thinks needs to be there.
Retired from working on it is more like it.
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Oct 15, 2022 22:45:49 GMT 1
flg.
I have said setting limits on Oz is NUT you cannot compare Spices from the Old Days and 2022 Due to Fillers in the 2022 Spices and Herbs which have been found to be as high as 25% BY numerous Private sources who have investigated the Spice and Herb Trade including 60 Minutes, Market Place, and other World wide News agencies.
When you recognize a potential of 25% change in NON Pure Spices which were enforced HEAVY in 1930's that would effect any Spice NOW
Bill S. Marion Kay indicated that when he recreated the Spices and Herbs in 1970's ? and there was NOT a 25% Spice and Herb Filler acceptance of HERE & NOW 2022.
26oz relative to a 25% Spice and Herb impurity would make the equivalent at 32.5oz Potential in 2022 from previous Years where everyone jumped on the 26oz Band Wagon.
As for 11 Spices and Herbs Plus Salt, Pepper, Msg. adds to 14 minimum with my Math Ingredients count.
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