smallgree
Chef
Here is a vial recipe:
Posts: 1,394
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Post by smallgree on Jun 13, 2023 20:59:27 GMT 1
I sat down this morning with my calculator and figured out a recipe using the Ledington recipe. What I discovered was that I can take this recipe and fit it into Shelton's information. It works if you assume that the 20g were spices and the 10g were herbs, and that the 2/3 salt is a code. If you look at the actual recipe, there is a "dot" between the T and the s before salt. A mental marker?
I just finished and I will draw up a usable recipe. It is a 100g recipe for 2 cups of flour, with all of the salt and msg included. Kind of funny how it worked out.
At the end it is 2 tsp of salt short, which I'll assume went into the "brine". If you use oleoresins, as I discovered that Griffith imports massive amounts of black pepper oleoresins, and if you assume that the paprika (Stange's earliest extract), the peppers and the celery were all reduced in weight by using oleoresins, then the lighter seasoning bags are logical.
I used spoon measurements and converted to grams. The earliest KFC products I received in 1998, consisted of 32oz seasoning and 48oz salt, with a 70oz resulting total (70g for 400g flour). For my recent calculations, I have 85 grams for about 272g of pastry flour. The remainder of the salt goes into the brine.
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flg
Souschef
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Post by flg on Jun 13, 2023 21:42:09 GMT 1
Agree there are important reasons Stange and Sexton’s and later Griffith’s were the companies used by KFC. All brought something required to the table.
I believe black pepper was one time heavier than white. But that changed with the extracts etc
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smallgree
Chef
Here is a vial recipe:
Posts: 1,394
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Post by smallgree on Jun 14, 2023 1:53:59 GMT 1
I just finished and I will draw up a usable recipe. It is a 100g recipe for 2 cups of flour, with all of the salt and msg included. Kind of funny how it worked out.
At the end it is 2 tsp of salt short, which I'll assume went into the "brine". If you use oleoresins, as I discovered that Griffith imports massive amounts of black pepper oleoresins, and if you assume that the paprika (Stange's earliest extract), the peppers and the celery were all reduced in weight by using oleoresins, then the lighter seasoning bags are logical.
I used spoon measurements and converted to grams. The earliest KFC products I received in 1998, consisted of 32oz seasoning and 48oz salt, with a 70oz resulting total (70g for 400g flour). For my recent calculations, I have 85 grams for about 272g of pastry flour. The remainder of the salt goes into the brine.
When reading about oleoresins, I discovered that some expire in 12 months and some in 24 months. Since KFC seasoning bags are hermetically sealed, shouldn’t they last as long as sealed spices we buy in the store? But in reality, KFC seasoning bags have quick expiration dates. Proof positive that oleoresins are used. Thus throw our old weight standards out the window.
When Shelton was given that list of ingredients, he only counted "10". Later he was sent a message with the "remainder" of the recipe, at 13g. Why? Was it a more complicated formula he needed to work out? If he was given it in "code", then he had no complete recipe to work with. Is this really why nothing was ever leaked from it? Was it the Ledington recipe since he was told that that list would make KFC chicken? IMO, that 13g "ingredient" was too convoluted to jot down like the other 10.
If the Settles had the same recipe, is this why KFC said it was missing 5 ingredients? My interpretation fills in those missing "5".
I have indicated in the past, that although "we're" expected to use coriander, I just don't like it. It makes the chicken taste like donuts.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2023 11:14:00 GMT 1
Absolutely blows my mind how a fake, publicity stunt recipe and the dodgy Shelton story keep you busy.
- CHS was so keen on sharing his secret recipe with Shelton that he would visit him completely unannounced and unprepared, not even having a pen, let alone the recipe in a written form. Typical behaviour when you want to share a recipe in detail...
- Shelton was not able to count to 11: He only later realises that one item was missing. Why would you even care and start counting when someone is sharing a million dollar recipe of 11 items with you?
- 10 (+1) items to be mixed with flour; no extra salt, vegetables or anything outside the 11. This goes against everything most of you believe and practise.
- Only several days later, CHS remembers that one item was missing from the recipe, which he could have written down himself in the first place to avoid this silly mistake if he was really serious about it (Point 1). So his memory was not good enough to recollect what the 11 herbs and spices were, but he would remember several days later that one item was missing from a piece of paper someone else had written down?
- Instead of giving Shelton a call, or visit him again, a random employee that CHS ran into, was instructed to reveal the last "secret" item. The OR was so secret, that CHS would summon Shelton to the parking lot like in a mafia movie, and yet we ought to believe he openly shared ingredients with a random employee.
- Sheltons attorney then persuades him that he doesn't really want his good friends recipe. As a successful business man himself, he would have known about property and patents etc. Shelton also does not seem to be asking himself why CHS would even want to share his recipe with him.
Makes perfect sense!
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flg
Souschef
Posts: 1,578
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Post by flg on Jun 14, 2023 12:42:06 GMT 1
Absolutely blows my mind how a fake, publicity stunt recipe and the dodgy Shelton story keep you busy.
- CHS was so keen on sharing his secret recipe with Shelton that he would visit him completely unannounced and unprepared, not even having a pen, let alone the recipe in a written form. Typical behaviour when you want to share a recipe in detail...
- Shelton was not able to count to 11: He only later realises that one item was missing. Why would you even care and start counting when someone is sharing a million dollar recipe of 11 items with you?
- 10 (+1) items to be mixed with flour; no extra salt, vegetables or anything outside the 11. This goes against everything most of you believe and practise.
- Only several days later, CHS remembers that one item was missing from the recipe, which he could have written down himself in the first place to avoid this silly mistake if he was really serious about it (Point 1). So his memory was not good enough to recollect what the 11 herbs and spices were, but he would remember several days later that one item was missing from a piece of paper someone else had written down?
- Instead of giving Shelton a call, or visit him again, a random employee that CHS ran into, was instructed to reveal the last "secret" item. The OR was so secret, that CHS would summon Shelton to the parking lot like in a mafia movie, and yet we ought to believe he openly shared ingredients with a random employee.
- Sheltons attorney then persuades him that he doesn't really want his good friends recipe. As a successful business man himself, he would have known about property and patents etc. Shelton also does not seem to be asking himself why CHS would even want to share his recipe with him.
Makes perfect sense! I don't think he did give Shelton the OR recipe. I think he gave him the recipe him and Bill Summers developed. Which at the time would have been a lot like or the same as the recipe Pat Grace was using.
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Jun 14, 2023 12:56:02 GMT 1
East Frisian:
Point of fact why CHS Helped Winston S. C.H.S. was pissed at NEW AGE KFC who Did NOT want to use the Winston Brand equipment at one Point.
C.H.S. Gave Winston a Original Cash Loan to Build equipment for the Colonels Company, and remained Loyal to the Friendship they had.
These Men were Loyal to each other.
You are Not thinking about the Way the Men of that time Era Did Business and Had agreements.
C.H.S. Had Given the recipe to the Canadians already before then.
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Post by Silver on Jun 14, 2023 12:56:36 GMT 1
I don't think he did give Shelton the OR recipe. I think he gave him the recipe him and Bill Summers developed. Which at the time would have been a lot like or the same as the recipe Pat Grace was using. I think either Winston Shelton made it all up, or the books author made it all up. Fake (or twisted) stories happen. Then they grow and evolve. Then they become truth. Often even to the originator. Edit: Either true or faked, stories will never lead us to the secret recipe. Only our taste buds will lead us to a sufficiently close facsimile of secret recipe nirvana such that it matters not if it is precise. As to precise, over time the "secret" recipe has evolved into sufficiently close facsimiles numerous times under corporate guidance, via all corporate primaries, including CHS. I'm willing to bet that CHS himself continued to modify and evolve the secret recipe continuously over time, and the story he told of fixing the recipe in 1939 is just that, a story. I'm guided by J. P. Morgan's slogan here: "I've always had two reasons for everything. A good reason, and the real reason." (substitute "story" for "reason") Guess which reason/story gets publicly disseminated and thereby propagated. If you guessed "the real reason/story", go sit in the corner of the room and put on the dunce hat. Or in modern thinking, consider yourself woke and enlightened.
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Post by Silver on Jun 14, 2023 13:40:51 GMT 1
Here's a quite relevant quote from a renowned Canadian Philosopher:
“Only puny secrets need protection. Big discoveries are protected by public incredulity.” [where discoveries = secrets = lies = cover-ups = secret recipes, etc...]
Herbert Marshall McLuhan was a Canadian philosopher whose work is among the cornerstones of the study of media theory. He studied at the University of Manitoba and the University of Cambridge.
My take: Some lies are so fantastic that the public in general will (due to public incredulity, or mass delusion) go to extremes to uphold and protect and defend them (I.E., such lies). The public is blinded and deluded into doing so by sheepishly following the media. And many years ago McLuhan discovered that such is the very essence of "media theory". Witness the popular desire to support and defend the criminal Biden family, and put Trump away in prison for 400 years... Media, media, media (rimes with Russia, Russia, Russia)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2023 14:49:36 GMT 1
East Frisian: Point of fact why CHS Helped Winston S. C.H.S. was pissed at NEW AGE KFC who Did NOT want to use the Winston Brand equipment at one Point. C.H.S. Gave Winston a Original Cash Loan to Build equipment for the Colonels Company, and remained Loyal to the Friendship they had. These Men were Loyal to each other. You are Not thinking about the Way the Men of that time Era Did Business and Had agreements. C.H.S. Had Given the recipe to the Canadians already before then. You are missing my point deepfried. It ain't about sharing a recipe with a good and loyal buddy. It's the story. And what people make of it. I would expect everyone that takes this story at face value to also stay within 11 total ingredients from now on. But of course they won't. This is called confirmation bias. When faced with information that contradicts their existing beliefs, people experience cognitive dissonance - a state of psychological discomfort. To reduce this discomfort, individuals selectively accept or reinterpret information to maintain consistency with their beliefs. So my question is, and maybe you have a satisfying answer. Let's put the dodgy circumstances aside. Why would CHS give Winston Shelton his recipe, when he obviously wasn't too interested in it to begin with? This makes CHS look kinda silly, giving out his precious secret to people that don't even want or need it.
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Post by DutchGuy on Jun 14, 2023 14:50:01 GMT 1
I'm guided by J. P. Morgan's slogan here: "I've always had two reasons for everything. A good reason, and the real reason." (substitute "story" for "reason") Nice quote. I'm going to steel and use that
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