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Post by Silver on Aug 31, 2022 22:50:10 GMT 1
Have u cooked this recipe? cfc Not yet, but it should satisfy the four requisite flavor groups.
Coriander & Mace = Nuttiness Group Anise Seed and Star Anise = Licorice Group Clove and Allspice = Eugenol Group Ginger = Zingerone Group
Plus the three peppers should give it a nice SHU balanced flavor, heat, and bite.
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Post by Silver on Aug 31, 2022 22:57:03 GMT 1
And additionally, the Salt should be at a more KFC OR like level.
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Post by Silver on Sept 1, 2022 0:19:04 GMT 1
Have u cooked this recipe? cfc It is first and foremost an exercise in seeing if a viable candidate recipe can be fit into the confines of a 740 gram (26.1 ounce) bag while delivering up sufficient of the flavor requisites whereby to evolve the all critical note while not resorting to spice extracts, flavor boosters, etc... Confidence is relatively high on my part that it will meet the goals. |
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smallgree
Chef
Here is a vial recipe:
Posts: 1,418
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Post by smallgree on Sept 1, 2022 2:59:18 GMT 1
Mace, nutmeg, star anise, anise, clove, fennel and caraway seeds, are not in CHS's original recipe. Glen never showed any of these, and most think his research was Godsent. Go figure.
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Post by Silver on Sept 1, 2022 10:46:20 GMT 1
Mace, nutmeg, star anise, anise, clove, fennel and caraway seeds, are not in CHS's original recipe. Glen never showed any of these, and most think his research was Godsent. Go figure. Unless I counted wrong, Glen's final episode revealed that there are only 6 Herbs and Spices beyond B&W Pepper. And with B&W Pepper included you only have 8. So it appears there is room for 3-5 additional ingredients.
Black Pepper (1)
White Pepper (2)
1) Savory (or) Allspice (3)
2) Coriander (4)
3) Ginger (5)
4) Thyme (6)
5) Sage (7)
6) Marjoram (8)
As an aside a KFC rep commented that the Settle's recipe discovered in a home they purchased which was previously owned by CHS was up to about 5 ingredients short.
If restricted to 3 more, my extras would most likely be Mace, Anise Seed, and Clove. And I would drop out Allspice. Allspice is said to be "like" a mixture of Nutmeg, Cinnamon, and Clove. Plus many KFC bags list Garlic as an ingredient.
1) Black Pepper 2) White Pepper
3) Savory
4) Coriander
5) Ginger
6) Thyme
7) Sage
8) Marjoram 9) Anise Seed (or) Star Anise
10) Mace (or) Nutmeg
11) Clove 12) Garlic Powder
To me, Star-Anise tastes 'roughly' like a blend of Licorice, Cinnamon, and Sugar (or Stevia). I've yet to make a recipe with it that I truly like, such as for Anise Seed, but I've not quite given up on Star-Anise yet. The main problem, I believe, is in getting the quantity of Star-Anise correct. It is very quantity touchy, whereas Anise Seed is far less touchy, and also more consistent from batch to batch.
Conflate B&W Pepper to 1 ingredient and 12 becomes 11. Or leave them out of the count, and add one additional ingredient. Cinnamon?
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Post by Silver on Sept 1, 2022 11:35:56 GMT 1
And then there is Cayenne Pepper. If perhaps KFC utilizes a 'Pepperall' "like" extractive whereby to achieve that lingering pepper "bite" aftertaste, and if you can't duplicate this 'bite' at home because extractives are beyond normal reach, Cayenne Pepper offers a kludge (of sorts, loosely applying this term). It's use adds yet another extra ingredient, but perhaps it shouldn't be counted...
Admittedly, Kentucky is not Louisiana, but none the less, there does seem to be a lot of Cayenne Pepper use within southern USA style cooking. Don't go overboard though. Getting this one right is tricky.
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smallgree
Chef
Here is a vial recipe:
Posts: 1,418
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Post by smallgree on Sept 1, 2022 18:09:12 GMT 1
I have commented often that my chili seasoning and my BBQ sauce, both developed during about a 40 year period, have similar ingredients. After CHS sold his enterprise, he tried to develop a BBQ business. Here is the biggest misdirection I have encountered since the early 1990s when I began to search for the OR (KFC quit selling gizzards and livers in my community). CHS's daughter said, "there weren't many (that many) herbs in the OR". This came during the time frame that she made the statement, "Dad's mother taught him that sage and savory were good for chicken".
When someone posts a query (not just myself), and the response is off point and intended to redirect the discussion, or derail one, I suspect chicanery. I am a defense trial lawyer. I've seen it for 30 years. This is what Ellsworth (DTM) was the master of, but all so subtle. Most of the ingredients discussed on these forums have no legitimate origins, except from the musings of Mark, Lumpy and Ellsworth, with others joining in later. I have always said that those that say the early chicken had a licorice taste, but never ate the chicken until the 1980s, or even the 1970s, are influenced by what they read, not by what they "experienced".
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Post by Silver on Sept 1, 2022 18:54:25 GMT 1
I have commented often that my chili seasoning and my BBQ sauce, both developed during about a 40 year period, have similar ingredients. After CHS sold his enterprise, he tried to develop a BBQ business. Here is the biggest misdirection I have encountered since the early 1990s when I began to search for the OR (KFC quit selling gizzards and livers in my community). CHS's daughter said, "there weren't many (that many) herbs in the OR". This came during the time frame that she made the statement, "Dad's mother taught him that sage and savory were good for chicken". When someone posts a query (not just myself), and the response is off point and intended to redirect the discussion, or derail one, I suspect chicanery. I am a defense trial lawyer. I've seen it for 30 years. This is what Ellsworth (DTM) was the master of, but all so subtle. Most of the ingredients discussed on these forums have no legitimate origins, except from the musings of Mark, Lumpy and Ellsworth, with others joining in later. I have always said that those that say the early chicken had a licorice taste, but never ate the chicken until the 1980s, or even the 1970s, are influenced by what they read, not by what they "experienced". Clearly both of us agree that the chicken flavor we seek doesn't have a licorice taste. The worst cloning attempt failure I ever made was when I used too much of both Star-Anise and Tarragon, both of which deliver licorice, such that the licorice was actually identifiable. The key is to use any/all ingredients such that they benefit the overall flavor note without being identifiable individually. If the ingredients were all individually identifiable, we wouldn't need these forums.
Might I suggest that you openly and completely post here your very best note delivering KFC OR cloning recipe such that we may all benefit from seeing it. And might I also suggest that you try cooking my licorice containing (as Anise Seed) recipe #17.
I seriously doubt that anyone on this forum has any clue as to who Ellsworth (or any DTM, Dennis The Menace) is. Even those who mainly freq the KFC11 forum, but don't go way back, have likely never heard of him. Thus to use such a name with no valid context and conceive that it adds credence to an argument (whatever that argument may be, with this being why you must reveal your best recipe) falls flat. Ellsworth apparently was a participant of the long gone 'TCK' (The Colonel's Kitchen) KFC cloning forum.
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Post by Silver on Sept 1, 2022 19:40:57 GMT 1
Having cooked a recipe that (as inspired by Glen) had Savory at the pinnacle, with no Allspice or Clove, and also no Anise Seed or Star-Anise, and lastly no Cayenne Pepper, I can vouch that this recipe was also an abject failure.
Has anyone noticed where the recipes which Glen himself concocted were all flagged as failures?
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smallgree
Chef
Here is a vial recipe:
Posts: 1,418
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Post by smallgree on Sept 2, 2022 3:57:46 GMT 1
You never encountered the man, or did you? LOL You know about the riddle. I have given clues, and not one spark of interest. So be it.
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