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Post by Silver on Sept 2, 2022 9:25:30 GMT 1
You never encountered the man, or did you? LOL You know about the riddle. I have given clues, and not one spark of interest. So be it. I entered the KFC cloning game far too late for Ellsworth. I've only heard of him by reading loads of posts mentioning him on KFC11 over the span of about the last 2 years as I strived to educate myself on past cloning history. It seemed popular on that forum to accuse just about everyone of being Ellsworth redivivus. Even you suffered that fate at least once. |
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flg
Souschef
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Post by flg on Sept 2, 2022 12:53:09 GMT 1
I'd love to hear the riddle.
I also don't know or care who Ellsworth is.
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Post by Silver on Sept 2, 2022 13:30:23 GMT 1
I'd love to hear the riddle. I also don't know or care who Ellsworth is. Agree on both counts. What is this riddle? Plus I also don't know or care whom Ellsworth was. The TCK forum he frequented vanished long long ago, and he only seems to have been of concern to those who go way back on the KFC11 forum (having migrated there after TCK went belly up). This is not the KFC11 forum. |
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smallgree
Chef
Here is a vial recipe:
Posts: 1,418
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Post by smallgree on Sept 2, 2022 15:54:38 GMT 1
He's out there.
The riddle:
The Vials are not numbered, but are labeled alphabetically. Only Vials A and B are in dark letters, while the others are light. Only two vials of similar color and texture are next to each other, F and G, which are a light yellowish color. Most agree that ginger, mustard, white pepper, garlic and fenugreek are candidates for those TWO vials. There are the knowns, such as salt, msg, white pepper, black pepper and garlic. CHS said he used tellicherry black peppercorns. That one book has KFC adding 4 oz of Jamaican ginger to the seasoning bags. Two places construct the seasoning bags. The daughter said that CHS's mother taught him that sage and savory were good for chicken. Ledington leaked a recipe that KFC said lacked 5 or 6 ingredients. Gloria Pitzer was sent to get an Italian Seasoning mix. She picked Good Seasons and CHS said she was on the right track. The settles had a recipe that had a lot of ginger in it, which KFC said was a sausage recipe. MSG hit the American markets in 1952, as did Aromat. The lake order, from 1953 (not debatable with me), where two handfuls of something were thrown into the mix. KFC had 5 Spice Girls and 6 Herbs as followers. Some dude got an award for figuring it out. CHS (and his wife), Grace's, 99X, Lee's, and the Settles were all subject to KFC lawsuits. The 11 Hs&Ss are in everyone's pantries. CHS used "dressing" and sausage ingredients. The early recipe had sweet notes, which became salty by the 1970s. CHS died in 1980 and the biography came out in 1982 and the Vials in 1985. There are multiple photos of seasoning bags at various weights. Stange, who was strongly involved with the development of the KFC empire, was known for food additives and specialized grinding techniques. Stange's first extract was paprika, and soon afterwards developed Pepperall, which was copyrighted for 50 years, but was never sold wholesale, or retail, that anyone has been able to discover. Early workers said the mix was reddish, and some said it was greenish. The salt is super fine, and soft winter wheat flour was used with an egg and milk wash. CHS, when he was pushing his product, kept a tin in his pocket that is assumed to have been a 16 oz container. The fat was Crisco made with cottonseed oil. The chicken was pressure fried, and kept in a wet holding cabinet. In later years, the chicken was marinaded in a dry mix placed into water, and the eggs and milk were dried and put into the flour. Some fellow once peeked around the corner and saw people, with a pole, stick something into the blocks of shortening in the storage room.
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flg
Souschef
Posts: 1,578
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Post by flg on Sept 2, 2022 17:40:03 GMT 1
I have notes around all of the above. And thanks for placing it all together.
Ledington's plus Glen's list get you the 6 herbs. With potential overlap
Thyme
Basil
Oregano/Marjoram
Mustard seed (an herb)
Sage
Savory
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Post by Silver on Sept 2, 2022 18:12:41 GMT 1
flg, what would make mustard seed an herb?
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smallgree
Chef
Here is a vial recipe:
Posts: 1,418
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Post by smallgree on Sept 2, 2022 19:10:02 GMT 1
The keys are "A and B" (They are like ingredients, different from C, a spice. Place them next to "C" and observe).
F and G are light colored. One is ginger, but the other whatever you choose, excludes either ginger, white pepper, fenugreek, garlic or mustard. Look at your givens.
Don't overlook oxidation, and don't be confused about crushed elements in the vials, that should be finely ground, or should they. Remember that some herbs and spices can be found (purchased) in various shades of color.
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Sept 2, 2022 20:11:18 GMT 1
I have commented often that my chili seasoning and my BBQ sauce, both developed during about a 40 year period, have similar ingredients. After CHS sold his enterprise, he tried to develop a BBQ business. Here is the biggest misdirection I have encountered since the early 1990s when I began to search for the OR (KFC quit selling gizzards and livers in my community). CHS's daughter said, "there weren't many (that many) herbs in the OR". This came during the time frame that she made the statement, "Dad's mother taught him that sage and savory were good for chicken". When someone posts a query (not just myself), and the response is off point and intended to redirect the discussion, or derail one, I suspect chicanery. I am a defense trial lawyer. I've seen it for 30 years. This is what Ellsworth (DTM) was the master of, but all so subtle. Most of the ingredients discussed on these forums have no legitimate origins, except from the musings of Mark, Lumpy and Ellsworth, with others joining in later. I have always said that those that say the early chicken had a licorice taste, but never ate the chicken until the 1980s, or even the 1970s, are influenced by what they read, not by what they "experienced". HEY SMALLGREE your comment "After CHS sold his enterprise, he tried to develop a BBQ business." Your wrong do research Brown and Massey Bought a BBQ Franchise rights from CHS 1 year before he sold them the KFC Franchise excluding Canada, UK, Florida, Montana, Utah. It's Funny that you COMPLAIN or COMMENT that the Original KFC Recipe how could it not be disclosed ? BUT many have asked you for your secret family Chili or BBQ Sause and YOU Do Not disclose it ? Then you Boldly say you will NOT share it ? So are you and CHS have something in common, OH except CHS attended Missions and Church where he enjoyed time with many many Franchise Owners and cooked in their Homes, and showed them many things NOT spoke about because they Honor and Cherish CHS. If your such a Great Lawyer Please go get the Documents from the Court Cases KFC was in and share them with everyone ? The Affidavits and Statement of Claim disclose SOME IMPORTNT item's that Newspaper articles Do Not Disclose ? BUT any good Lawyer or Defense Attorney would know that ? Have you seen The Court paper work I would guess NOT from ALL your comments ? You Claim to have 2 Bags of Old KFC Spice 1 NOT open ? why are you NOT testing those Spices a Unopen Bag would still Contain enough residual traces that a spectrometer or other instruments would detect ? |
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smallgree
Chef
Here is a vial recipe:
Posts: 1,418
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Post by smallgree on Sept 3, 2022 17:50:36 GMT 1
You are a newbie. Most of these photos floating around about the "KFC system" are mine. I have three KFC seasoning bags, 1998, 2016 and 2018 (unopened). I have KFC flour, salt, marinade and egg and milk powder. I have the 1998 franchise manual. I have sent samples around and in fact, have been rejected by other forums because it was determined that only 99X deserved to be studied. My response was 4Q. I let off the gas pedal at that time.
I wouldn't give up recipes I've worked on for 40 years to anyone, even if it hair-lipped the Pope. Why would I? How do you know about that anyway?
The discussion about the BBQ business was to indicate that CHS probably used like ingredients. The date of anything concerning CHS's BBQ enterprise is not material to the discussion.
The person making a proposition has the duty to reveal the proof/sources, in order to convince another. That is you, not me. I have no duty to give credibility to your views.
I don't need the court files (I have read them, and know that lawyers wrote them) because I have already deciphered the contents of the vials, and am presently working on the amounts to use. I have also figured out why the early KFC was sticky. My research is grounded in my cooking, and I don't mean finger tasting a dry mix, I mean actual cooking.
You indicate that many have been given the OR, but I did not read of one single example where the recipe had ever being leaked out (Glen said that Grace's and the Canadian recipe were the closest that a person could get to LEGALLY making KFC). I guess CHS was such a mystical and Holy man, that just being near him caused one to be totally virtuous to the point of taking CHS's secret TO THEIR GRAVES. I don't buy it, so you must convince me. I have no need to convince myself of what you believe.
And when the brow beating begins in an attempt to shame me, remember this, I have no desire to reveal my angles about KFC, while someone is poking a finger in my eye. I'll decide when the time comes. I have given the clues that helped me decipher the hidden. Feel free to do some independent calculating.
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Sept 3, 2022 19:25:21 GMT 1
I don't have a Clue why ANYONE would Not do a reverse engineering on the KFC spice and NOT the 99x which Bill S was forced to change.
Glen's Recipe IS NOT THE ORIGINAL Spice and Herb it is a 1980's BLEND.
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