Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2023 15:03:04 GMT 1
This highly valued thread now makes me want to add my Lippia graveolens Mexican Oregano in place of Marshalls Creek Savory in a recipe some time. When I first tried Lippia G., I had the idea that it would be replacing common Sage in a potential OR. Did not like the outcome. Now it seems to make more sense to consider Lippia G. a Summer Savory replacement or vice versa, keeping common Sage where it belongs - in the recipe. |
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Post by Silver on Jan 14, 2023 15:57:34 GMT 1
My (unidentified) Savory smells nothing at all like my Lippia graveolens Mexican Oregano (wherein there are other types of Mexican Oregano). I guess that means it's the Winter variety. The brand is 'Marshalls Creek'. My Lippia graveolens Mexican Oregano is amazingly floral and citrusy by comparison. I should add that along with being very floral and citrusy, Mexican Oregano also packs quite the aroma impact of Oregano. And I've been waffling over Oregano being out of place in KFC.
As aroma goes, Mediterranean Oregano stinks, and Mexican Oregano smells wonderful. But don't add Mexican Oregano to a Tomato Sauce based Spaghetti as I once did, as it tastes absolutely awful in that application. My wife grabbed it to toss it out, and I had to do some careful negotiating whereby to rescue it. They are not interchangeable.
Marjoram works in KFC clones. Savory works in KFC clones. Sage works in KFC clones, and can't be left out, as I very recently learned, the hard way... Oregano may or may not work, though I'm now leaning toward 'not'. I think I'm done with Oregano.
Thyme always seems to over-power nearly everything else in my KFC Clones. I think I'm done with Thyme.
The vials indicate that there are only three Herbs. Sage, Savory, and Marjoram are the best bets here IMHO. Mexican Oregano needs a shot though.
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Jan 14, 2023 16:02:47 GMT 1
The Savory Winter and Summer Both can be as distinctive as the Variety of each that is grown.
In Canada we have a Prominent High Quality Summer Savory BUT many are NOT understanding the depth and range of the Savory in The Eastern Lower areas of Land region NS. or NB. Arcadia Summer Savory is Grown while in B.C. A.B. near the Higher elevation Mountain other Variety of Summer Savory Grown better and the seed starting these two are not the same Savory original Seed base.
Which happens in ANY CROP Wheats, Grains, Spices, Herbs, Coffee or Teas.
As distinctive as the crops are make flavor change region to region in the Big Part.
K.F.C. has a Different Flavor in Different countries as MANY have found when they eat in the different Countries.
USE the Ingredient that you have if that's what's going to make the Chicken. If one is as crazy as our Business structure and spend $1000.00 on Spices and Herbs Per month and feel its worth the Price and Headache to use Jamaican Pimento over Allspice or A Jamaican Ginger Root for a quality Ingredient its each to there own.
I personally think the Quality is a Major part of the equations BUT Find many locally Grown more organic to be some of the Better spices.
I have Posted the Sage we have been using for 6 months and from a Super Store location off the shelf WHICH HAS been some of the MOST unreal ever purchased TO THE point we have had to Modify recipes and cut the AMOUNT DOWN to almost a NON existent value and its Still a POWDER HOUSE in the cooking.
When C.H.S. was in Canada west coast Summer Savory was a item he openly spoke about in Private cooking setting BUT there were other items more important to the cooking then the Summer Savory dependent upon the item being cooked.
In Canada a Summer Savory was being used in the Blend that C.H.S. was blending and USING IN CANADA. Bill S from Marion Kay and C.H.S. were in Calgary and worked together to have it mixed in Canada. The Marion Kay chicken seasoning was Hard to get into Canada West Coast. in the early late 60's and early 70's.
Bill S. / Marion kay and C.H.S. were working together in the Late 60's early 70's Before the issue started with KFC in 1973/1974 when Bill approached K.F.C. to make the Spices and Herbs for K.F.C. NEW AGE Corporation.
ONE NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND C.H.S. COULD NOT COULD NOT USE the Original Recipe which he sold to Brown & Massey In Canada, Florida, Utah, England, BUT there WAS NOTHING saying He could NOT use the Original with More items added as long as he DID NOT DRASTICALLY make the chicken worse, HE COULD MAKE IT like the Original he Made
ONE thing that is Overlooked and NOT spoke about BY MANY PEOPLE is the Sweet or Sweetish Flavor depth the Original had. Which disappeared.
Was it from the Sweet Type Herbs ? or was it a Sugar ? this makes a difference in the selection of the Herbs if you hit the Natural way to get it.
Marjoram, has been over looked as a what may have been used in areas and Savory in others due to the similar flavors.
The Western Style Turkey Stuffing made in some house in Canada NOT NOT Dressing has Marjoram, Sage, Savory, but many just used Sage and Savory and Parsley as others said the Savory and Marjoram were to similar?
Too Much Pressure is Being PUT on the emphasis of EXACT EXACT EXACT well unless the Original Recipe is disclosed START HAVING FUN and make your OWN GREAT K.F.C. Chicken with as close as the Flavor you want the K.F.C. New Age Flavor or the Original K.F.C. flavor that was a SOFT Breaded Chicken NOT a Crispy Coating.
THE FLAVOR IS DIFFERNET between a Softer Coated Fried Chicken then a Crispy Fried chicken.
START HAVING FUN MAKING CHICKEN AGAIN - SHARE your experience of which you have made. MAKE C.H.S. Proud that you want to make the Original Chicken and NOT wall Paper Glue Gravy and Crispy chicken which HE despised
Its a Great Day to Have Fun making Fried Chicken
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Post by Silver on Jan 14, 2023 16:07:04 GMT 1
If I was to add Mexican Oregano, I would leave both Savory and Marjoram out, keep Sage in and add the following for a recipe built upon a base of 200 grams of flour.
1) 0.75 grams of Sage (my go-to amount)
2) 0.25 maximum grams of Mexican Oregano.
Of course there would assuredly be no Mediterranean Oregano or Thyme added...
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Post by Silver on Jan 14, 2023 16:19:41 GMT 1
I'm not adverse to adding between 0.4 and 2.0 grams of Dextrose powder to my recipes. When the family was eating one of my recipes to which I had added 2 grams of Dextrose, side by side with KFC OR, my youngest daughters Husband spoke up and stated that he indicated a faint sweetness in my chicken that KFC lacked, but then (just as I was beginning to get worried) he prefaced this by stating that the sweetness was a plus. I've determined that 2.00 grams is max, as sugar darkens the chicken, and the more you add, the darker your chicken will become. 0.4 grams will be the sweetness equivalent of the Lactose Sugar sweetness imparted by the addition of powdered eggs. I doubt that it will be overtly very obvious at 0.4 grams, but there may be a subliminal flavor benefit.
All of this is for seasoned flour built upon a base of 200 grams of flour.
Edit: When I added 4 grams of Dextrose Powder (a few times), the Chicken was way dark. At 2 grams it reminds me more of early era Kentucky Fried Chicken darkness.
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jwoz
Dishwasher
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Post by jwoz on Jan 14, 2023 16:31:01 GMT 1
Wow. This is an unusual thread for these forums. An actual substantive discussion with several people contributing good and substantive thoughts simultaneously.
I agree with East Frisian that Mexican oregano can’t replace sage but could find its way into the recipe. I’m mindful of the fact that the Eula Gordon and Ledington recipes (not advocating for them, but just noting this) include “origino” but don’t include any sage or savory - but Mediterranean oregano works poorly IME.
I agree with deepfried. Quality is important but equally important is that we are dealing with agricultural products whose qualities vary region by region and season by season. And there used to be a more prominent sweetness in the recipe. And summer and winter savory vary widely both between each other and among their own category.
And I agree with Silver’s descriptions of Mexican vs Mediterranean oregano. And Thyme is very very strong. Very high in thymol. IME it can’t be used in large quantity.
I don’t “do” the vials so I don’t know how many herbs those would indicate are in the recipe but having cooked hundreds of these recipes there is no doubt at all that the target flavor is more “spice based” than “herb based.”
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Post by Silver on Jan 14, 2023 16:48:17 GMT 1
On a 'rough' sweetness equivalence basis:
0.4 grams Dextrose ~= 0.3 grams Table Sugar
2.0 grams Dextrose ~= 1.5 grams Table Sugar
I don't know how this substitution might equate to darkness impact though...
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Jan 14, 2023 16:52:59 GMT 1
CONSTRUCT CRITISM and GREAT COMMUNICATION will over come ALL adversity
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flg
Souschef
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Post by flg on Jan 14, 2023 16:56:05 GMT 1
The other consideration is supply. When they were mixing in house. They had to be able to get large and frequent quantities of a fairly consistent product. As they got bigger and larger contracts and companies were involved that may have been easier. But at some point they were self sourcing.
I think we have all learned in some cases substitution could have been made to account for a shortness of some ingredient. But you can’t firefight all the time and also build the business as we was.
Whatever he was using had to be fairly easily sourced
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2023 17:41:32 GMT 1
Recipe robustness, folks. Get the ratios and ingredients right. Yes, quality is always important. But I can’t and will not believe that common variations and inconsistencies will ruin the recipe or keep the gates of chicken nirvana closed. The OR was created by an experienced and seasoned gentleman selling food from a petrol station at rather rough times. I personally don’t believe in a higher complexity and sophistication with regards to the OR formulation. Next you will need a particular blend of wheat harvested by chanting virgins before dawn  |
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