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Post by deepfriednew101 on Apr 1, 2023 16:34:49 GMT 1
I agree and Would have never implied ever that a Sesame Seed or Sesame Seed Oil has NO Aroma or Flavor.
We buy it in 4l. Jugs and It's Crazy Great.
Similar to a Bacon Fat and Beef Tallow OIL BOTH THE Bacon and Beef Tallow are NO comparison to ANY Vegetable Oil in AROMA and Flavor with the exception of the Sesame Seed. A Peanut Oil would also Be a High Contender for Great Flavor and Aroma BUT Allergy restricted. more then a Sesame Seed Item.
I have Said this POINT for Decades the Aroma and Flavor changed MAJOR DRASTIALLY when not only KFC but also McDonalds went away from BEEF Tallow for cooking K.F.C. Chickens and McDonalds French Fries.
MY OLDEST POST were the Use of Beef Tallow as a Original Used Item, although C.H.S. mentioned Vegetable Oil on the T.E.F. show. he also mentioned Crisco, and lard for Years.
I also Always said that the Chicken Slurry at the Bottom of the Pressure Cookers when Cooled which were Fried in Beef Tallow Had more Beef then Chicken Taste from The Soaked Oil in the Slurry.
If you follow the K.F.C. Gravy and the way it was originally made with MILK. it was then re-made By a Canadian who used Beef Base to flavor the Gravy After the removal of the Beef Tallow Oil.
Canada, Crowsnest Pass, Alta, was, where Kay Kerr and Her Husband Ran a KFC. she was well-known as a "gravy pioneer" in Canada for remaking Kentucky Fried Chicken gravy as we know it in 2023.
K.F.C. History it's the NEW AGE Gravy Based on a Beef & Chicken Gravy Powder Mix with the 11 Spices and Herbs and Tarragon Vinegar Powder. Kay Kerr developed in the Hotel they owned.
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Post by Silver on Apr 1, 2023 21:51:32 GMT 1
I saw a gallon bucket of Lard for only $12-US today at an Amish/Mennonite country butcher shop located about 60 miles south of where we live. I should have grabbed it, but didn't.
We nabbed some Lee's Famous recipe while down that way, and this time it highly disappointed. Dark meat pieces were good (but not great) and breast pieces were as dry as all get-out. The coating was dull tasting, and not at all delicious as it had always been in the past. The chicken pieces were darker than usual as well. A huge disappointment. The Akron, Ohio 'Showcase Meats' chicken is now leagues better than this days Lee's was.
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smallgree
Chef
Here is a vial recipe:
Posts: 1,393
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Post by smallgree on Apr 2, 2023 2:05:21 GMT 1
I cooked an attempt at Derrick Wilson's recipe. It is good seasoning, and would make excellent gravy, but it is not the OR.
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Post by Silver on Apr 2, 2023 19:27:41 GMT 1
I saw a gallon bucket of Lard for only $12-US today at an Amish/Mennonite country butcher shop located about 60 miles south of where we live. I should have grabbed it, but didn't. We nabbed some Lee's Famous recipe while down that way, and this time it highly disappointed. Dark meat pieces were good (but not great) and breast pieces were as dry as all get-out. The coating was dull tasting, and not at all delicious as it had always been in the past. The chicken pieces were darker than usual as well. A huge disappointment. The Akron, Ohio 'Showcase Meats' chicken is now leagues better than this days Lee's was. Second day eating report on the Lee's Famous Recipe Chicken.
We re-heated it. Plus I poured on a good load of both Salt and Pepper. This transformed it from dull to quite tasty. Way more KFC_like in nature. It's amazing how adding Salt and Pepper transformed it. The Breasts were still dry though.
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smallgree
Chef
Here is a vial recipe:
Posts: 1,393
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Post by smallgree on Apr 2, 2023 22:27:27 GMT 1
It has been suggested that I have only two of the 11 vials correct. I wonder which vial lineup has been scrutinized, since I have many, many lineups I've experimented with. So, in line with this assertion, I am posting one of my earlier suggested vial lineups. I have never indicated, conclusively, which lineup I prefer, as my posts have been intended to spark discussion and debate. Edison tried hundreds of materials before he found tungsten as the filament needed for his lightbulbs. Enjoy.
A - Oregano B - Tarragon C - Chili D - Bay leaf E - Clove F - Aromat G - Ginger H - Cumin I - Green Cardamom J - Coriander K - Peppercorns
This and 2 TBS fine salt for two cups flour.
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smallgree
Chef
Here is a vial recipe:
Posts: 1,393
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Post by smallgree on Apr 5, 2023 23:50:10 GMT 1
I have determined that the 11 vials show only what CHS started out with when he began to franchise his chicken. Therefore it is history and exempt from liabilities and lawsuits. It has no correlation, whatsoever, with what the Corporation began to use in 1964, and thereafter. The phrase "11 this and that" was simply a product advertisement. There was one time that KFC lost the right to use the phase exclusively, as they refused to re-register it. Since then, KFC has begun to use the phrase to re-establish their rights to it. (this was in the press). So, for example, if Aromat was used early on, what did the Company have to do to replace it in the recipe? CHS helped KFC in this endeavor, as he was often in the lab to help out. This is the change I detected. MSG undoubtedly was the exclusive umami used after 1964. I haven't seen one iota of evidence that MSG was used early on (30s, 40s, early 50s). The period from 1955 to 1960 might have been a period of transition, but that was probably from Pete, and if so, it was probably to reduce the cost of Aromat. How do you replace Aromat and keep your ingredients to 11? If this is all so, then throw out the vials? Or does it give us a hint as to what the later KFC had to use to create the same "note" that CHS created?
I already have several formulas worked out. The one I'm cooking tomorrow has a sharp "bite" to it.
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Apr 6, 2023 3:06:10 GMT 1
If you look back to 1935 the word secret spice was NOT C.H.S. invention it was First started BY Durkee's and Famous Dressing seasoning. also there were others using the Catch Phrase before and after
as a example I have shown these Before which used the secret spices words. It's NOY what I say its what there advertisements from the 1930's say. Yes Lawry's was they promoted either 12 or 17 spices which was similar timing to KFC.
Famous Dressing seasoning Braggs Lawry's Season Salt
ANY transition Peter Harmon Did was with C.H.S. as Pete was NOT under the KFC NEW AGE CORPORATION or Brown and Massey
Canada, Florida, Utah, Montana, UK were NOT part of the Sale to Brown and Massey.
C.H.S. had a laboratory in the NEW AGE HEAD OFFICE which WAS NOT part of Brown and Massey Research and Development department. There was WARS between Massey and C.H.S. and Brown had to run interference between the TWO. There were standing Jokes Brown Had to check if C.H.S. was in the Back building and Kept Massey and C.H.S. apart.
C.H.S. worked on his Own things in the Lab. which was NOT under Brown and Massey Control
As for Aromat Knock your SOCKS OFF.
As for your Comment that M.S.G. was not used in 1930's 1940's 1950's ARE you talking about the Colonels chicken ? or NOT used where ?
I will stay with my Opinion that the M.S.G was the two handfuls added in the Boat Ride story as the 11 herbs and Spices were already set in stone in 1939
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smallgree
Chef
Here is a vial recipe:
Posts: 1,393
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Post by smallgree on Apr 6, 2023 9:36:57 GMT 1
The two handfuls was in 1953. I wonder why he would dump in just MSG rather than a mix that had it as an ingredient. No proof, just speculation. This forum, as well as Ken's is shanghaied. Trust me friends, I am working diligently in solving this puzzle. As I get closer, expect the negatives to expand. I am on your side.
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Apr 6, 2023 12:22:17 GMT 1
I will bite How was the Two handfuls in 1953?
It was later then 1953 and the Proof is in the Boat Dock that Noh Owned who commissioned C.H.S. for the Chicken Order.
That Boat Dock open after 1953 it was open in the 1955/56 time period ?
Further Proof was C.H.S. clearly stating in MULTIPAL Interviews Paper and Radio, T.V. it was 16 or 17 years after he established the 11 Herbs and Spices that he Added the Final element. 1939/1940 plus 16/17years = 1955/1956ish Approximately
I have posted the Articles on the site numerous times
M.S.G./ Ac'cent is the Top Item added at that time period could have it been another item which contained M.S.G. ?
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flg
Souschef
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Post by flg on Apr 6, 2023 13:03:01 GMT 1
Further Proof was C.H.S. clearly stating in MULTIPAL Interviews Paper and Radio, T.V. it was 16 or 17 years after he established the 11 Herbs and Spices that he Added the Final element. 1939/1940 plus 16/17years = 1955/1956ish Approximately And I have posted where he said ingredient NOT element. So no solid proof one way or the other. Do I think that he tossed in a herb he hadn't used before - NO. Do I think he added a spice he never tried before - NO. Do I think MSG or garlic or something along those lines was added - most likely. Less risky. But I have zero proof. Just my instinct that I would minimize risk in that situation as well. And I know that these folks never ate and may not eat again his chicken so you could experiment. But a good business man doesn't risk any chance of negative press
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