flg
Souschef
Posts: 1,578
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Post by flg on Oct 28, 2021 13:25:40 GMT 1
Starting this thread to walk through the use of a spice blend in your recipe.
As mentioned in other posts. Using a spice blend like poultry seasoning presents a way to count it as one ingredient allow the use of more ingredients in your recipe. I have gone back and forth on this concept as I see both the merits and the pitfalls. While I'm not convinced that early on blends of spices may not have been used. I feel strongly for licensing and other restrictions they weren't in the later versions. Unless they were reverse engineered. Copied. A long standing theory of mine is that Sexton's Poultry seasoning may have been the base he built on.
I posted in another thread a few copy cat recipes and a formulae chart for building poultry seasoning recipes yourself. For this experiment I an going to stick to one of the copycat recipes just for ease of demonstration.
First step I did was compare all of the copycat recipes to the ingredients I was using. Looking at overlap, looking at weights of the ingredients and calculating the total ingredient list I wanted to use and making sure I could represent 11. I based this on my version of a Kitchen Sink recipe.
In doing this I came up with Schilling's being the closest fit. Actually real close. This is where some analysis, research and unfortunately a bit of "guessing" starts.
First thing I found was with Schilling's Poultry Seasoning I looked a pictures of a few old tins. It appears their recipe has changed 3 times I could find and maybe more. The last couple it appears the ingredients remained but weights changed. So to that fact. Problem #1 relying on another corporations blend has an obvious pitfall in that you can't control them changing formulas.
Enough for post #!
To be continued...
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Post by Silver on Oct 28, 2021 14:09:29 GMT 1
Here is a snapshot of my own recent "Kitchen Sink" recipe as trimmed to 11 H&S via the use of "Poultry Seasoning":  The Poultry Seasoning replaces Sage, Savory, Thyme, and Marjoram. |
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Oct 28, 2021 16:19:12 GMT 1
I will chime in more regarding the seasoning
Keep this is mind the 1935's to 1940's
were what CHS had at his disposal prior to the 11 Spice's & Herb's he developed in 1939 so the Possible blends would be more located in the 1035's to 1940's Types which were more basic.
Yes many were changed and modified along the time. If you look at the potential time when items were changed it was more related to Spice's were Items of Trade from other countries and like most commodity it became scares with shipping disasters ships shank, Crop Failures in Growing, Plus many other shortage situations.
Keeping in mind that the simpler less items spices of the 1930's (4) item blends were VERY powerful and had a power punch. There were either rubbed or stone milled spices, They were 30% more powerful then any 2021 Spice you will find. So throw the 26oz out the window when making a batch and trying to bring it into a recipe.
Only my though
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flg
Souschef
Posts: 1,578
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Post by flg on Oct 28, 2021 16:24:53 GMT 1
Part#2
In the decision to use Schilling's Poultry seasoning based on the copycat recipe floating around the web:
Schillings copycat:
• 2 teaspoons ground sage
• 1 1/2 teaspoons marjoram
• 1 1/2 teaspoons thyme
• 1/2 teaspoon nutmeg
• 1/2 teaspoon finely ground black pepper
Place marjoram & thyme in a mortar & pestle (or spice grinder) and lightly process until powdered. Add remaining ingredients.
I noticed based on the instructions I would assume Dried Thyme is being used not ground Thyme so using the standard volume to weight charts may not be the best bet. So I carefully measured and weighed multiple times my Dried Thyme and my Marjoram and then used the average of those trials to come up with as best as possible volume to weight conversion.
Based on a vintage tin:
Sage
Marjoram
Thyme
Nutmeg
Black Pepper
It was clear based on my measures and weights that the copycat recipe may not be correct. Marjoram should most likely be 2 teaspoons of volume measure not 1 1/2 (still an assumption or guess). However the outcome of this change matches the tin weight and after all the recipe is a copycat so...
Now I have this:
Schillings copycat:
• 2 teaspoons ground sage
• 2 teaspoons marjoram
• 1 1/2 teaspoons thyme
• 1/2 teaspoon nutmeg
• 1/2 teaspoon finely ground black pepper
So without getting into all of the decimal point math I have a Poultry formula like this
1.4g Sage
1.1g Marjoram
and +/- 1g each of Thyme, nutmeg and Black Pepper.
So the actual numbers now become constants in my recipe I can't change. I'm locked in so to speak. (Pitfall #2) I can alter the percentage of Poultry Seasoning but not the individual amounts of the ingredients in it. I could add but then I have to count that ingredient in the overall recipe. What this was attempting to avoid.
1.4g of Sage for any of my 200g scaled recipes is to high. So I need to determine what percentage I need of this Poultry Seasoning in my final recipe.
to be continued.
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Post by Silver on Oct 28, 2021 17:05:30 GMT 1
The requisite formula for my custom Poultry Seasoning blend is:
11.60 grams Sage
6.44 grams Thyme
6.44 grams Marjoram
3.87 grams Savory
Combine and grind. Yield = 28.35 grams = 1 weight ounce
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flg
Souschef
Posts: 1,578
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Post by flg on Oct 28, 2021 17:05:59 GMT 1
Part#3
My last cook and best so far:
3g MSG
3g White Pepper
2.5g Black Pepper (fine, course 50/50)
1.3g Garlic Salt
0.5g Coriander
0.5g Ginger
0.35g Allspice
0.35g Thyme
0.35g Sage
0.35g Sweet Paprika/Cayenne (60/40 blend)
0.25g Summer Savory
0.25g Clove
0.15g Anise Seed
0.15g Marjoram
My proposed Kitchen Sink (no savory which started this mission)
3g MSG
3g White Pepper
2.5g Black Pepper
1.3g Seasoning Salt (celery, garlic, onion)-- changed from garlic salt to a homemade seasoning salt
0.7g Sage ---- doubled up
0.5g Coriander
0.5g Ginger
0.4g Allspice
0.35g Sweet Paprika/Cayenne (60/40 blend)
0.15g Cardamom - new ingredient
0.15g Cloves -- less than before to balance eugenol block
0.15g Anise Seed
0.15g Marjoram
0.15g Thyme
XXXXg Savory
In looking both over and using the copycat recipe. I paid attention to the marjoram level. If I used 50% ratio of the poultry seasoning I have .550g of Marjoram and for me that's too high for 200g flour. But it appears 25% would mesh better with my recipe #1. The notable difference is about double the marjoram and an extra ingredient in nutmeg.
So for me a 25% ratio blend of Schillings copycat reads like this.
0.35g Sage
0.28g Marjoram
0.27g Thyme
0.25g Nutmeg
0.25g Black Pepper
1.4g of Schilling's Poultry Seasoning.
So my recipe needs to be re-written to make some adjustments to weights of ingredients accounted for in the Poultry Seasoning, account for nutmeg and add in the Kitchen Sink.
next part is last I promise.
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flg
Souschef
Posts: 1,578
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Post by flg on Oct 28, 2021 17:35:05 GMT 1
Final part.
So in accounting for the Poultry Seasoning and my Kitchen Sink recipe. Then looking at formula's for Sausage seasonings etc and trying to minimize change. To get the Kitchen Sink in 11 I'm left with, for 200g flour or less:
3g MSG
1) 3g White Pepper
1) 2.25g Black Pepper (fine, course 50/50)
2) 1.4g Poultry Seasoning (Schilling Copycat)
3) 1.3g Garlic Salt or Seasoning Salt (Garlic, Celery and Onion)
4) 0.5g Coriander
5) 0.5g Ginger
6) 0.25g Allspice
7) 0.25g Sweet Paprika/Cayenne (60/40 blend)
8) 0.15g Summer Savory
9) 0.15g Anise Seed
10) 0.15g Cardamom
11) 0.15g Clove
I can count my Garlic Salt or Seasoning Salt in the 11. I get the Kitchen Sink in this recipe in 11. If I go the route of a Seasoning Salt which includes celery and or onion along with the garlic I could accounted for:
White Pepper
Black Pepper
Sage
Marjoram
Thyme
Nutmeg
Garlic
Celery
Onion
Coriander
Ginger
Allspice
Red Pepper
Savory
Anise
Cardamom
Clove
16 ingredients. But in doing so, I have tied myself to this particular brand and version of Poultry Seasoning. It is a risk. I obviously could still move around the weights of individual ingredients. Like perhaps less Ginger in favor of more savory as an example.
For this I limited myself to an off the shelf type solution for the poultry seasoning instead of creating my own. I would think CHS would have done the same. Why build a blend and and to a blend of your own? You would use all single ingredients.
Thoughts?
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Post by Silver on Oct 28, 2021 18:24:24 GMT 1
Cook it! That is my thought. I'd say it should prove to be quite good.
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Post by Silver on Oct 28, 2021 18:31:23 GMT 1
Somewhere from within the combined Allspice, Anise Seed, and possibly Clove will likely evolve the 'note'. And it appears that you have sufficient of these components. The Poultry Seasoning is only there for additional seasoning. Icing on the cake, so to speak.
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Post by Silver on Oct 28, 2021 18:37:01 GMT 1
With the discovery that the typical commercial/retail Poultry Seasoning comes in at about 37% pepper, I've finally realized why my sausage containing turkey stuffing often seems to be over/high on the pepper side. That's why I'm not considering that my 'personal' Poultry Seasoning blend have any pepper component. I've been getting abundant pepper from the sausage, and then pouring more pepper into it via the Poultry Seasoning.
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