flg
Souschef
Posts: 1,578
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Post by flg on Oct 2, 2021 15:20:58 GMT 1
Spending some time looking into older recipes from online. 10 - 15 years and I notice Green Cardamom seemed to be in favor in a high percentage of these. But lately over the last couple of years. Has faded out of "popularity".
In looking at substitutes I came up with:
Cloves
Cinnamon
Apple Pie Spice
Nutmeg
Ginger (close cousin)
Allspice
Most favor a cinnamon/Nutmeg blend as a popular combination.
Where do everyone stand on this ingredient as of now?
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Oct 2, 2021 15:48:00 GMT 1
Cardamom has a citric back ground and aroma.
It was used Lots in the Bakery world in the 1935's Era.
Remember CHS was a ad vide Baker and Bread and Biscuit, PLUS Dessert's were very important to him. He loved Donut's
Cardamom has a NOTE that's important to KFC aroma. combined with Mace.
It Does NOT make sense in a CHICKEN Dish some have said. BUT I keep telling people this NOT little known story from CHS.
CHS used more principles from Bakery and Baking to make a Perfect Chicken Crust and coating. Look at his comment of Spices from Stuffing and Sausage.
Stuffing from Bread the Principle CHS said was if you can make stuffing sing with flavor, the principle works into the Chickens coating.
I will stand on a principle of Yeast is a Key item.
you can SMELL a Baked Bread when you walk in the Door of a Bakery, You can smell the Mini Donut at a Fair. The Hot Oil Smell and the Yeast Flour. Combination.
YEAST WAS IN EVERY EVERY EVERY Kitchen in USA in 1930's YOU HAD TO HAVE IT.
Everyone says that the Yellow Color Vial is Mustard ?
in the 1930's Nutritional yeast was used as a spice or condiment, in many dishes.
Cardamom has a citric flavor and was more available then a Spice Tin of ground citrus. Most Orange and Lemon were liquid extract in the 1930's
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flg
Souschef
Posts: 1,578
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Post by flg on Oct 2, 2021 17:33:51 GMT 1
It may be that for example if I look at a recipe that contains orange zest similar to what Silver presented as #4 or #7. That for a recipe like that. The use of allspice, clove and orange zest, may be replaceable by green cardamom.
I keep coming back to the idea that although the ingredients changed over time for what ever reasons. It's the result of the combination of spices that's required. Thinking of it in blocks it could be.
Pepper Block
Savory Block
Eugonol BLock
There may be 1 or two more. But the point I'm trying to achieve is within this blocks or compartments. Individually the spices may change but the result within the block is the substitute(s) must make sense.
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Post by Silver on Oct 2, 2021 18:49:59 GMT 1
Umami Block
Salt Block
Herb Block
Spice Block
Citrus Block
More?
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Oct 2, 2021 20:25:15 GMT 1
I agree or the Family Tree of spices
Salt - Block
Pepper - Block
Herb - Block
Spice - Block
Umami - Block
Citrus - Block
Earthy - Block
Back Ground - Block
you are correct there are ranges of Blocks or Family Tree that spices fall under which make the Flavor
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flg
Souschef
Posts: 1,578
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Post by flg on Oct 22, 2021 22:41:36 GMT 1
Finally got a nice fresh bottle of Cardamom. First time even trying it.
-Smells very fruity, lime zest, orange zest, a little floral.
-Tastes to me exactly how I smell it. It tastes BIG gives me the impression not a lot is needed to make in impact
Now I am wondering if orange or lemon zest can or did replace this for costs savings?
Cook time next week I think. I have to rethink my recipe now
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Oct 23, 2021 16:12:38 GMT 1
there are a few items with lemon or citrus fruity flavor
Cardamom is one which has many great taste and aroma
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flg
Souschef
Posts: 1,578
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Post by flg on Nov 5, 2021 21:55:44 GMT 1
Did a little more reading. And because of the complexity of Cardamom, when it comes to substitutions. There are various recommendations based on what you are cooking. Baked goods sweet or savory or meats etc. It appears for meats like poultry the best substitute for cardamom is allspice. You can replace allspice with cardamom 1:1. Allspice replacing cardamom should be a bit less. That being said I wonder if Cardamom may have been used originally. It's definitely more money than allspice. Could this have been a substitution made for cost savings or the supply required? It would change the taste for sure as allspice is less complex and lacks the citrus taste
My current next recipe I have temporarily shelved it. But I am thinking I may make a version with allspice and a second with cardamom in it's place and see. Leave out both and split my mix and add the correct proportion and have 2 tests in one go. |
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Post by Silver on Nov 5, 2021 22:08:10 GMT 1
Cardamom seems to have some of the flavor qualities of:
Allspice
Nutmeg
Cinnamon
Clove
Ginger
Coriander
It seems like a very versatile spice. I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2021 22:51:01 GMT 1
Cardamom is one of the most expensive spices in the world. If I'm correct, the 3rd most expensive after saffron and vanilla. If it ever has been part of the OR, this would be the first item to be replaced in a more commercialised approach. It has got a unique flavour which I think cannot be replaced with any other spice or combination of spices. We use it a lot during winter in my region for baked goods.
In fried chicken, it does provide some sweetness and scent, but I would not consider it to be crucial. So please don't waste your money on a background player. And please do not try to substitute a background player with the addition of multiple other spices. It will make things worse.
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