flg
Souschef
Posts: 1,578
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Post by flg on Aug 17, 2021 23:59:16 GMT 1
I agree.
What spices do the majority feel where included in the OR. Think about availability in that time frame (late 30's into the 40's) including what would have been available commonly in local stores in his area. Also consider cost, so cost would have played a factor early on as will. If he could substitute and save dollars he did.
The result is the likely candidates
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Post by Silver on Aug 18, 2021 2:08:03 GMT 1
In my opinion the earliest versions likely included:
Paprika
Mustard Powder
Chili Powder
White Pepper
Black Pepper
Clove
Basil Leaves
Oregano
Coriander
Ginger
Sage
Thyme
Celery Seeds (or salt)
Though certainly not in that order by weight.
CHS stated that everyone likely has these spices at home. These listed spices would have been in every home in the 1930's-40's. Allspice, Star Anise, Cardamom, Marjoram, and Savory (a spice popular only in Canada) would not have nearly as likely been in the average Kentucky home. I don't think Garlic was original, and ditto onion.
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Post by Silver on Aug 18, 2021 2:14:54 GMT 1
Plus of course flour and salt.
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flg
Souschef
Posts: 1,578
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Post by flg on Aug 18, 2021 13:13:51 GMT 1
There was also a suggestion that Cumin may have been included before Coriander in that time for availability. But I don't know. Else that list seems reasonable to spices most folks would have had in their kitchens.
Garlic is listed today so when that went into the mix may have been later or wasn't listed until required. I tend to think perhaps early on any onion, garlic or celery flavors may have come from a seasoning salt. I'm talking early on. Potentially changing when the started commercially mixing the spice.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2021 13:38:33 GMT 1
Look at my latest graphic and you will see that there are quite a lot of different options, surely even more than listed. So the Corp isn't really unravelling their secret with any photograph. Also, we all know "the 11" are not the full thing and that it takes more than just getting these right. I'm talking ratios, salt, onion, other ingredients such as turmeric, baking powder or the general cooking technique, brining etc.
These graphics can serve you well when you already have a solid base recipe. I'd say I am 98% there and already far better than the new age chicken or anything I had before, so for me it's just about playing with some lower impact ingredients I haven't used before, which possibly add a note here or there. But nothing major really. I would consider items like cinnamon, cardamom, cloves, nutmeg etc to be of the "last third" within the 11 so to say. They are background players and surely add special notes and flavour, but they don't make up the majority of the recipe.
One thing I also came to realise, or assume, is that some people seem to try to crack the recipe on paper only without much or any apron time. Recipes are being issued without ever being tested. This is ridiculous. Every recipe put out here should be marked or tagged so people know it's not just someone theorising and hoping someone else might give it a go.
So what would be the first or major ingredients of the 11 in a descending order? If you ask me it would be
PEPPER (TELLICHERRY & WHITE PEP.)
CORIANDER
GINGER
SAGE
ROSEMARY
MARJORAM (can be replaced with either thyme or savory)
Other ingredients do have their functions, such as colour (paprika, turmeric), heat (ancho, chilli), sweetness and fragrance (cinnamon, cardamom) or pungency (cloves, nutmeg, allspice) or flavour boost (MSG, celery, yeast). Of course they will make the product more delicate, but try some chicken with these first 6 items and you will see what I am talking about. You can then take it from there and add spices according to their function and to your taste or from what you remember as being original or authentic. As for now, I decided to not give out my recipe or any detailed ratios, because people seem to rather be hitting the keyboard than the fryer.
Have a good one, wherever you may be in the world.
Regards,
Dennis
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Post by Silver on Aug 18, 2021 17:08:06 GMT 1
The websites I just visited all agreed that the single best substitute for Marjoram is Oregano.
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Post by Silver on Aug 18, 2021 18:08:14 GMT 1
I'm on my 5th actual deep fried chicken batch at this juncture. Each has used a different recipe, and each has shown improvement over the previous edition.
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Post by Silver on Aug 18, 2021 23:29:58 GMT 1
There was also a suggestion that Cumin may have been included before Coriander in that time for availability. But I don't know. Else that list seems reasonable to spices most folks would have had in their kitchens. I need to get brave enough to substitute Cumin Seeds for Coriander Seeds one of these days. It might work!!! Plenty of sites have them as 1:1 substitutes. |
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Post by Silver on Nov 8, 2021 13:55:49 GMT 1
A little gift from me. Hope this will help you guys.  This is stellar work, and the Russian sources may indeed limit our choices. |
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Post by Silver on Nov 8, 2021 13:59:45 GMT 1
This picture clearly shows Star Anise as an ingredient. What about Allspice? |
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