smallgree
Chef
Here is a vial recipe:
Posts: 1,416
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Post by smallgree on Jul 1, 2024 21:05:06 GMT 1
Thought I'd add just a few observations. After the Grace's blow up, most members disappeared from this forum. I find it interesting that many members from Ken's forum (KFC11), who have been absent for a long time, have all of a sudden reappeared. Hummmm.
When CHS gave what he gave to Shelton, what he was actually doing was telling him that the recipe was limited to 11, or 12, if he read between the lines. If everything is within the 11, and the vials, done in 1985, when KFC kicked Marion Kay's ass, is a poke in the adversaries' eyes, then the vials take on a different look. Everything is in the vials, except for msg, the 12th. It replaced much of the umami that was later removed from the OR.
Many are puzzled by the apparent lack of ingredients in modern KFC, Graces, and 99X. Many complain, an argument I've made for years, that often when we cook, there is simply too much going on. Is it because we ARE USING TOO MUCH? (the seasoning bags were light, but if they contained Pepperall?)
We can only speculate whether legal action has caused the juggling of ingredients in these "other" recipes. They appear to attempt through their agents to show that their recipes contain 11, and if some were dropped, they break down some of the "mixes", as in Sexton's, to give the appearance of 11. (come on, three grinds of black pepper?)
If Sexton's contains many of the elements we have always speculated were in the 11 Hs&Ss, and it was actually used as a mix, or just one element, then that opens the vials to include all that we have tried for years to include within the vials. I'm very thankful that I've finally figured it out.
I'm going to cook a little more, mostly with skins included, and maybe, just maybe, I'll post what I believe are actually in the vials. No more speculation. I have tough skin, but I've recently detected a little bleeding.
The phrase multiples didn't indicate that all ingredients were mixes. Only after years of being queried about the "11", this man gave a hint on how to solve the equation. Some are mixes, or multiples. That is the only way to fill the two light colored vials.
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crazyforchicken
Kitchen Assistent
eating Kentucky Fried Chicken since 1960's
Posts: 191 
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Post by crazyforchicken on Jul 1, 2024 21:22:39 GMT 1
Great observations willy! I've always thought CHS started with SEXTONS POULTRY SEASONING and added other stuff to it. When the demand for the "recipe" got too expensive he reverse engineered the SEXTONS to reduce cost of ingredients..
We are trying to do both at the same time.
I have 3 versions of SEXTONS. How many are there? The earlier the better.
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smallgree
Chef
Here is a vial recipe:
Posts: 1,416
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Post by smallgree on Jul 1, 2024 23:17:09 GMT 1
I use the alphabetical, and chronological listing method. I have two versions. The one I posted, and the one with the sage much heavier. During Thanksgiving, we used sage and poultry seasoning interchangeably. I've been using it for years, but when researching I never threw it out there because there were other elements I wanted other people to try. Remember that Glen claimed that he did not have the amounts, but only the elements. That meant he did not need to list the ingredients by weight. I believe he did so, but the 3 black peppers and one white pepper threw everything in limbo. Here is his list, and the list of Sexton's, which is listed by volumn, highest to lowest.
The heaviest ingredients are listed first. If an ingredient is listed above an item which is lower alphabetically, then it is heavier. If an item is listed above another with a higher alphabetical letter, then is is either equal to or greater than the lower element.
Salt - heaviest.
BP, fine - heavier than or equal to below.
BP, coarse - heavier than or equal to below.
BP, crushed - heavier than or equal to below.
White pepper, fine - lighter or equal to above, but heavier than below.
Allspice - heavier than or equal to below.
Coriander - heavier than or equal to below.
Ginger - heavier than or equal to thyme.
(MSG) - Glen was iffy about msg.
Thyme - heavier than below.
Sage - heavier than below.
Marjoram - lightest ingredient.
Sage
Coriander
Allspice
Ginger
Thyme
Marjoram
Pepper
Savory
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flg
Souschef
Posts: 1,578
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Post by flg on Jul 2, 2024 23:06:27 GMT 1
I use the alphabetical, and chronological listing method. I have two versions. The one I posted, and the one with the sage much heavier. During Thanksgiving, we used sage and poultry seasoning interchangeably. I've been using it for years, but when researching I never threw it out there because there were other elements I wanted other people to try. Remember that Glen claimed that he did not have the amounts, but only the elements. That meant he did not need to list the ingredients by weight. I believe he did so, but the 3 black peppers and one white pepper threw everything in limbo. Here is his list, and the list of Sexton's, which is listed by volumn, highest to lowest. The heaviest ingredients are listed first. If an ingredient is listed above an item which is lower alphabetically, then it is heavier. If an item is listed above another with a higher alphabetical letter, then is is either equal to or greater than the lower element. Salt - heaviest. BP, fine - heavier than or equal to below. BP, coarse - heavier than or equal to below. BP, crushed - heavier than or equal to below. White pepper, fine - lighter or equal to above, but heavier than below. Allspice - heavier than or equal to below. Coriander - heavier than or equal to below. Ginger - heavier than or equal to thyme. (MSG) - Glen was iffy about msg. Thyme - heavier than below. Sage - heavier than below. Marjoram - lightest ingredient. Sage Coriander Allspice Ginger Thyme Marjoram Pepper Savory I think Glen was trying to consolidate the 2 recipes into 1 with miraculously only 1 ingredient different and miraculously in the same spot. Winning lottery ticket style.
I don't buy it. In fact I asked Karl directly if Sage was a low as Glen portrayed as it doesn't make sense. He did not reply.....
In the Canadian market. Because summer savory is a weed here. It's cheap and plentiful. Swapping Savory and Sage in this market in weight order makes sense. It's a familiar flavor here. Other parts of the world it seems too hard to source at a reasonable price or easily.
I favor nutmeg as well as allspice in my recipe. So I could see IF that was the case Allspice could have been bumped up to replace another aromatic like that.
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smallgree
Chef
Here is a vial recipe:
Posts: 1,416
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Post by smallgree on Jul 3, 2024 1:30:59 GMT 1
I have been calculating how a 26 oz seasoning bag for 10 lbs of flour was increased to 26 oz, then 32 oz for 25 lbs of flour. I won't go into my math, as I will be checking the various methods I used to get my figures. I believe, first hand, that an 8/1 ratio was needed for the OR mix. As things were deleted, or replaced with other extracts, the amount of pepper extract needed to be changed. I believe it was pretty much trial and error, evidenced by the changing bag weights, and the addition and then removal of the flour and salt.
I messed up several times calculating because, for example, replacing 7 ounces of pepper with 4/1 pepper extract, means the weight of the extract does not comparatively replace a measurable amount of pepper weight in the mix. In essence, at 4/1, 7 ounces of extract would replace 28 ounces of pepper.
In order to know how much extract to use to replace regular pepper, one must know how much pepper was generally within the original 26 oz seasoning bags. That's a tough one, particularly if you don't believe the original flour amount was 10 lbs. It becomes a matter of faith. In order to alter a 26 oz bag to season 25 lbs of flour, you can't do it without knowing how much of the original mix was pepper. This is where Shelton comes in. 57% pepper, 20% herbs, 13% msg, 10% herbs. This is the formula I worked with.
I'll be beginning my pepper extract later in the week. I have a recipe formula, but must first have the extract. I'm not opening myself up to liability until I see the finish line before me. Then I will make it legally mine.
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Post by Silver on Aug 22, 2024 11:54:20 GMT 1
Benchmark Hot and Spicy
(August 22, 2024)
200. g. High Gluten Flour
28.5 g. Salt*
1 TSP Baking Powder
1 TSP Cream Of Tartar
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4.00 g. MSG
4.00 g. Black Pepper (Medium Coarse)
2.75 g. White Pepper
2.00 g. Ginger [1]
2.00 g. Cayenne Pepper [2]
1.50 g. Coriander Seed [3]
0.75 g. Nutmeg [4]
0.75 g. Mace [5]
0.50 g. Anise Seed [6]
0.50 g. Sage [7]
0.50 g. Summer Savory (or) Mexican Oregano** [8]
0.25 g. Green Cardamom [9]
0.25 g. Clove [10]
0.125 g. Rosemary [11]
0.125 g. Garlic Powder [12]
* 30 grams Salt if not brining
** Lippia graveolens
20 grams below the dashed line
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Aug 22, 2024 14:46:01 GMT 1
New Age used these items in the Spice versions
Birds Eye Chilli Powder
Tabasco Pepper listed as Capsicum
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Post by Silver on Aug 22, 2024 17:49:35 GMT 1
My hot and spicy is a hot/spicy that stays within the genre of KFC OR. It has no association with any other Hot and Spicy under any name brand.
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Aug 23, 2024 14:33:13 GMT 1
C.H.S Did NOT have any HOT or SPICY chicken Ever that is ALL NEW AGE KFC.
The Only thig CHS has was Original or Zing which was Original with extra Secret Seasoning BUT there was NEVER any HOT or Spicy Chicken Similar to the Crispy Chicken was NEW AGE Chicken which was NEW AGE CHICKEN that CHS Did NOT Like ?
The ONLY Extra Crisp chicken CHS made was Double Coating ALL Chicken Drumsticks
Drumsticks are coated in the seasoned flour then re-dipped in the water and second coated with the seasoned flour CHS stated that process Long before NEW AGE ever inventing the Extra crisp chicken
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Post by Silver on Sept 19, 2024 15:50:02 GMT 1
My recipe thought for the day.
200. g. Flour
28.0 g. Salt
1 TSP Baking Powder
1 TSP Cream OF Tartar
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3.50 g. MSG
3.50 g. Black Pepper (Medium Coarse)[1]
3.50 g. White Pepper [2]
1.25 g. Garlic Salt [3]
1.00 g. Coriander Seed [4]
1.00 g. Green Cardamom [5]
0.50 g. Nutmeg [6]
0.50 g. Mace [7]
0.50 g. Sage [8]
0.25 g. Savory [9]
0.25 g. Marjoram [10]
0.25 g. Clove [11]
16 grams below the dashed line
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