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Post by Chickenman on Dec 12, 2023 2:05:13 GMT 1
My next attempt will include these herbs/spices and ingredients.
Salt
Msg
Black pepper
White pepper
Spices/vegetables:
100% - Red pepper
100% - paprika
100% - Garlic powder
100% - Onion powder
100% - Celery seed
100% - Mustard powder
100% - Fenugreek seed
100% - Nigella seed
Maybe - Juniper berries
100% - Chicken bouillon powder
100% - Coriander seed
Sweet spices:
100% - Cinnamon
100% - Ginger
100% - Nutmeg
100% - Allspice
100% - Cardamom
100% - Caraway seed
Herbs:
Maybe - Parsley (or Coriander leaf, and dill)
100% - Sage
100% - Rosemary
100% - Thyme
100% - Oregano
100% - Basil
100% - Marjoram
100% - Tarragon
Maybe - Bay leaves
I put 100% next to all the herbs/spices i believe to be 100% a part of the recipe, and will not be removing any of those from any of my attempts.
Spices i am still considering are Cumin seed, Fennel seed/anise seed, and also star anise. These ones i haven't made my mind up on them yet. Cumin seed is incredibly savoury and i use it in all my cooking, so why wouldn't Sanders use it in the recipe? It makes 100% sense to use cumin seed in the recipe imo. I've already tested it a few times and it blended in perfectly and didn't stand out at all.
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Post by Chickenman on Dec 12, 2023 2:08:11 GMT 1
Looks like alot but i believe the real recipe has about that much herbs/spices going on ^
All those herbs when properly balanced are like 1 ingredient, same with the sweet spices.
I have already cooked a similar line up and it made the best chicken i ever made. Also, through my experimenting parsley does offer some aroma in the cooking even tho it seems like it barely has any flavour when dried.
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cman
Kitchen Assistent
Posts: 203
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Post by cman on Dec 12, 2023 5:37:50 GMT 1
Best of luck, ChickenMan! Looks promising.
The challenge with using so many herbs and spices is preventing the final product from tasting like an Indian curry. The addition of cumin, I believe, will certainly push the note towards a curry flavor. Thus, I had subtracted cumin a long time ago.
But who knows? There is always the synergistic effect of certain spices and the varying amounts that will one day add up to the OR KFC.
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Post by Chickenman on Dec 12, 2023 5:53:32 GMT 1
Best of luck, ChickenMan! Looks promising. The challenge with using so many herbs and spices is preventing the final product from tasting like an Indian curry. The addition of cumin, I believe, will certainly push the note towards a curry flavor. Thus, I had subtracted cumin a long time ago. But who knows? There is always the synergistic effect of certain spices and the varying amounts that will one day add up to the OR KFC. Well, with the sweet spices they are so strong like the cinnamon for example you only use touch amounts of them except for the ginger which is the heaviest. Rough ratios i use of these sweet spices Cinnamon about 1/8tsp maybe just a touch over. Nutmeg about 1/8tsp Allspice about 1/8tsp Caraway seed maybe just under 1/4tsp Cardamom about 1/8tsp Ginger 1/2tsp minimum to 1tsp maximum These amounts ^ are to roughly 300g flour. All of those together easily morph into one flavour that creates the magical rainbow of flavours and note. It is all a balancing act. Someone on the other forum i saw had a recipe where it had like 1/2 tsp of nutmeg!! there is absolutely no way that much would be used in the recipe. |
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Post by Chickenman on Dec 12, 2023 6:02:34 GMT 1
Also, even tho it is far more than 11, it can easily fit the 11 concept when you consider that an apple pie spice blend counting as 1 ingredient can include Cinnamon, nutmeg, allspice, cardamom. So those 4 right there can now count as 1.
Same with the herbs, Itallian herbs could be part of the recipe which can contain sage, rosemary, thyme, oregano, marjoram, basil, savory, so those are 7 herbs now counting as 1. I 100% believe there is atleast that many herbs in the recipe.
And i also believe that pepper is not counted among the 11. Pepper is the base, and the 11 are like a booster to that.
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cman
Kitchen Assistent
Posts: 203
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Post by cman on Dec 12, 2023 6:22:09 GMT 1
A big factor to consider is the profit margin of the struggling CHS restaurant.
I would imagine CHS as a culinary artist in that he had a preconceived idea on how his recipe should taste and like masters of a style, honed it to his perfection.
Thus, he would have been able to hone down the many alternatives that he experimented with.
I think it was Silver, among others, who had mentioned substitutions with regard to the spices.
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cman
Kitchen Assistent
Posts: 203
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Post by cman on Dec 12, 2023 6:47:24 GMT 1
Still another factor to deal with is the post-Frying decay of the final product.
The fewer spices used, there is more control of the aroma.
Conversely, when there is a plethora of herbs and spices in the recipe, the chicken may exude an acceptable aroma in the first day, especially immediately from the oven.
And then time passes and the aroma begins to alter from the desired smell. The second day is still acceptable but less so. And the third day and fourth day is vastly different from the first day: denial sets in.
My conclusion is that herbs and spices decay in varying degrees.
And the more Herbs and spices, the unwanted aromas and tastes become more evident. So, perhaps there really is 11 herbs and spices.
I do not believe that CHS used phosphate preservatives in his cooking. But the current KFC restaurants apparently do. And the product decay is less apparent.
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Post by Chickenman on Dec 12, 2023 7:04:23 GMT 1
Still another factor to deal with is the post-Frying decay of the final product. The fewer spices used, there is more control of the aroma. Conversely, when there is a plethora of herbs and spices in the recipe, the chicken may exude an acceptable aroma in the first day, especially immediately from the oven. And then time passes and the aroma begins to alter from the desired smell. The second day is still acceptable but less so. And the third day and fourth day is vastly different from the first day: denial sets in. My conclusion is that herbs and spices decay in varying degrees. And the more Herbs and spices, the unwanted aromas and tastes become more evident. So, perhaps there really is 11 herbs and spices. I do not believe that CHS used phosphate preservatives in his cooking. But the current KFC restaurants apparently do. And the product decay is less apparent. I disagree. I have tried, and tried, to make the recipe work with strictly 11 individual herbs/spices, it simply cannot be done. I've learnt enough through all my experimenting that a recipe as great as the "original recipe of 11 herbs and spices" cannot be made with just 11 and there is atleast 15-22 actual herbs and spices in the recipe. Why it's called 11 i still am unsure, but one thing that makes the most sense is the use of blends like apple pie spice. Alot of people think even if there is only 11 herbs/spices in the recipe, they think that is ALOT when it really isn't that much at all if you understand herbs/spices. |
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Post by Chickenman on Dec 12, 2023 7:13:11 GMT 1
A big factor to consider is the profit margin of the struggling CHS restaurant. I would imagine CHS as a culinary artist in that he had a preconceived idea on how his recipe should taste and like masters of a style, honed it to his perfection. Thus, he would have been able to hone down the many alternatives that he experimented with. I think it was Silver, among others, who had mentioned substitutions with regard to the spices. I agree with this, he would of fine tuned the recipe down to what he believed it only needed to have. And got rid of alot of extras that he thought weren't needed. At the same time, if he believed an expensive ingredient such as cardamom, Jamaican ginger was essential to his recipe, then he absolutely would of used it. I believe the story about the Jamaican ginger 100%. Sanders easily could of used regular ginger but preferred to use the more expensive Jamaican ginger. This just shows for certain stuff he didn't care about the price. His main goal was customer satisfaction. He didn't half ass his effort when cooking food, and truly put all his heart and passion into cooking it. Very rare to see that these days when most take away food is rushed, half assed slop. |
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Post by Chickenman on Dec 13, 2023 12:02:25 GMT 1
Forgot to include that i am also still considering Sesame Seeds. I am very close.
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