smallgree
Chef
Here is a vial recipe:
Posts: 1,398
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Post by smallgree on Dec 18, 2023 18:39:04 GMT 1
I like sirloin and chuck roasts. I like to grind them myself. I saute onions, garlic and jalapenos then brown my meat. I salt and pepper all of it. I use three dumps of my chili seasoning, one to season the meat, one to season the liquid, and the last within the last 15 to 30 minutes of finishing simmering the chili. I only use tomato sauce and chicken broth as the liquid, and I hit the chili with a touch of honey near the end. My chili seasoning is designed for quick, and tasteful chili for the active woman/man on the move.
I have developed many recipes which were good, but lacking in someway. I don't post the experiments because I don't want to mislead. Instead I post the processes I use and possible ingredient llneups. This is so others can experiment with their own systems.
I am getting ready to draw up a new recipe that will include all of the information I have learned, right or wrong, through the years. The phrase I have concentrated on has been CHS's statement to Winston Shelton that he could take these items and make his chicken. There were 11. Now how could you take these 11 if most people have other items used that are not in the famous 11 Hs&Ss?
I have figured out a way to include everything in 11 items, that will fit into the vials, except for msg, because I believe the msg was not used alone until the Corporation took over. I'm not misleading anyone, but this is a novel idea I think may be promising. It does include mixes, which I believe had to be broken down once the Company went public, due to copyright infringement concerns. Stay tuned.
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cman
Kitchen Assistent
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Post by cman on Dec 19, 2023 2:34:14 GMT 1
When browning, do you cook the meat until there is a golden brown color? I find it problematic when cooks stop at the color change as it does not bring out the full meat flavor.
Do you leave the rendered fat in or even add more oil? I find that Indian and Chinese restaurants dishes taste good because of the exorbitant amount of oil in the dishes. Perhaps it’s the same way for good chili? Also, should beans be added? What type? Would molasses be a good addition to obtain a deeper color? Does the addition of Greek spices as added in the Cincinnati chili take away from the original taste tradition of chili?
It would be great to see your mix sold at the shelves someday : or even at the restaurants.
I admire the creativity of your deductive argument to deduce the 11 KFC OR ingredients. I still find the pre-frying marinade steps problematic as the addition of vegetables may well be as strong in taste effect as the herbs and spices. In the 1952 image, ginger and celery are shown among the 10 spices but can also be added in the vegetable stage. And the Good seasons spice mix may very well be:
onion powder garlic powder dried oregano salt dried basil dried parsley black pepper dried thyme dried rosemary red pepper flakes
I may have done this very same 10 spices and good season spice mix recipe before. So, I would dare say that it will be close but will also miss the KFC OR taste. Almost like Mediterranean chicken. Anyway, enjoying the challenge.
I’m staying tuned and looking for more ideas.
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smallgree
Chef
Here is a vial recipe:
Posts: 1,398
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Post by smallgree on Dec 19, 2023 22:55:19 GMT 1
I just bought my first Good Seasons about an hour ago. What I do is not necessarily what CHS did, but working with the chicken I've got today, I improvise to get that flavor into the meat.
I brown my meat, sometimes with the vegetables, sometimes separate, depending upon how much chili I am making. If a large batch, browning the meat with the vegetables often just boils, or steams the meat without the browning. I like fat in my chili, but I do not like beans. I basically make Texas Red. I like Cincinnati style chili on coneys, but I don't make it very often. Took many years to develop my chili, probably like it took CHS to fry his chicken. I've only been after the KFC OR since the early to mid 80s. It is the internet that kick-started my research. After finalizing my chili, I turned my attention to KFC.
If you look at that CHS photo, you'll notice that the items are listed as they would be (if correct) in the 11 vials, and in that order from A to K. There are three things I took from that photo. Black pepper listed is a gimmee. Good Seasons is a given, but placed to mislead. The two light vials, which I pointed out some time ago, are together for a reason. This photo places Good Seasons in vial G. No way Jose. So what are they trying to promote? By putting ginger in vial F, they are distracting from what vial F really is. I always had it as mustard, and vial G as ginger. Remember Shelton getting the 11th item later, at 13g? Obviously that ingredient was the key and was held back until CHS slept on it. But what was it? Why did that photo move Good Seasons to vial G? Was it to hide the most important ingredient which is in vial F? Was it the two handfuls thrown in in 1953 (I'm firm on 1953 and can prove it)? Shelton said 20g herb, 10g spice, and 13g last. Did CHS consider a mix or blend an herb or a spice? Is a vegetable an herb or a spice? Would three mixes totaling 43% of the recipe count as multiples? This is where I'm at. Vial C is, and has always been, the most mysterious to me.
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cman
Kitchen Assistent
Posts: 205
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Post by cman on Dec 20, 2023 5:20:50 GMT 1
Hey Smallgree! My apologies that I’m a newbie in this forum and I had to go back to the start of this thread to refer to the vials that you mentioned. Sept.,’22. Admirable.  Whether it’s inductive or abductive reasoning, skepticism is always crucial to any argument. I would like to stand back for a moment and decide if the vials even hold any merit. In particular, were the vials just a creative campaign by the frat boys in marketing in the 50s? After all, marketing around that era produced campaigns that swayed people on the scientific proof on the health benefits and safety of cigarettes! Not taking any side on this. But why would a multi-million dollar company put out its reason for its existence? Perhaps the spices themselves did not really matter. The main spice flavor is still the Tellichery pepper. As many here probably found out already that a combination spices mixed tend to smell and taste the same, especially with the decay factor. So, perhaps I allude to the vegetables preparation again. Perhaps, it is in that process where the secret lies. In that 1952 ad that purported to show the 10 spices and Good seasons. But again, ginger and celery could also be in the vegetables preparation. Perhaps the marketing boys were doing some creative license to sell chicken. Stepping back in the vials debate, if you take out the celery, ginger and good seasons, that leaves 8 to fill. And the spices would certainly have a big impact in the oil flavoring and in the post fry baking process. Vial c, was that the darkest one? How about black mustard seeds? www.bing.com/fd/ls/GLinkPing.aspx?IG=93463FF478304E49BBFDC7AB08F35EA6&&ID=SERP,5562.1&SUIH=GxElv3Lt-d957fIOQlWlAA&redir=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuc3BpY2VvZ3JhcGh5LmNvbS9ibGFjay1tdXN0YXJkLXNlZWRzLyM6fjp0ZXh0PUJsYWNrIE11c3RhcmQgU2VlZHMgRmxhdm9yIFByb2ZpbGU
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Dec 20, 2023 15:55:46 GMT 1
What are you referring to with this statement
"In that 1952 ad that purported to show the 10 spices and Good seasons. But again, ginger and celery could also be in the vegetables preparation. Perhaps the marketing boys were doing some creative license to sell chicken."
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cman
Kitchen Assistent
Posts: 205
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Post by cman on Dec 20, 2023 17:34:20 GMT 1
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cman
Kitchen Assistent
Posts: 205
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Post by cman on Dec 24, 2023 15:06:29 GMT 1
Smallgree, what is your final verdict on sumac? It’s an element that I haven’t yet tried. What’s the closest similar spice? Where did you get it? Would the dried be substantially different from the fresh?
Thanks for this thread of yours. And Wonderful pinned threads: Silver, flag, Dfn101, etc. valuable information gleaned from them all! I was suggesting to Macerme to perhaps find a scriptwriter to use it along with your search for a chili recipe to unfold the life of Colonel Sanders. Or since, you’re a lawyer, write it yourself. It would make for a good Sundance type film.
Thinking about a green chili- tomatillos/green tomatoes/ jalapenos based with beef meat, heavy on fresh garlic and given a masa harina thickener and the finished chili topped with chopped cilantro and liberal powdering of freshly ground cumin and avocado slices.
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smallgree
Chef
Here is a vial recipe:
Posts: 1,398
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Post by smallgree on Dec 24, 2023 16:33:07 GMT 1
I bought sumac from an Asian market. I preferred lemon pepper over sumac, for that citrus taste, but I put both on the back burner. The key to my chili was the aromatic herbs and spices that most use for the OR. My first rejection, even after supporting it's use, was cinnamon. It just wasn't right.
My chili seasoning took many years, and like CHS, I keep it close to the vest.
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smallgree
Chef
Here is a vial recipe:
Posts: 1,398
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Post by smallgree on Dec 26, 2023 1:07:55 GMT 1
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smallgree
Chef
Here is a vial recipe:
Posts: 1,398
|
Post by smallgree on Dec 26, 2023 21:43:55 GMT 1
I got to wondering. CHS fried his chicken on high, then capped the pot and pressure fried longer, and lower. This made the bone ends soft and chewable. What if you found a way to soften those bones first, then hot fry the chicken to get a crispier skin? I succeeded doing the first part, now I will take the softened chicken and see if I can fry it.
Brine, Crock Pot, remove and fry in deep fat fryer. I've gotten soft, juicy chicken, now I need to figure out when to bread, and/or add additional seasoning, if any.
Cinnamon is out. I won't discuss it again.
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