flg
Souschef
Posts: 1,578
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Post by flg on Jun 25, 2022 14:35:01 GMT 1
Hi FLG
I appreciate what you are saying, which formula came first, KFC or Sexton Poultry Seasoning? Colonel Sanders claimed he came up with the KFC formula in 1934 (?) Sexton Trademarks were initially filed in May 1949 before being registered in September 1952. trademarks.justia.com/715/78/sexton-71578715.htmlHowever, at the bottom of this information, it says the first use of this trademark in commerce was 1928, which is 6 years before when the Colonel claimed he came up with the KFC formula. There is a 6-year window where CHS may have been aware of the Sexton brand. Then I checked the KFC trademarks and the earliest first use in commerce that I found was in 1950. trademarks.justia.com/722/09/col-sanders-recipe-kentucky-fried-chicken-72209173.htmlFirst use in 1950 I had a very quick look at his autobiography today (2 minutes). There is a section where he claimed his mother poured water into boiling oil and then quickly put the lid on before it boiled over, which is how he came up with the idea of pressure frying chicken. He does say exactly what he did to modify the first pressure cookers he saw. This all sounds a bit how ya going to me. Has anybody ever obtained some of the seasonings directly from KFC and ran it through a spectrum analyzer? Surely somebody must have gone bin diving at a KFC to find one of their used packets. Sorry you may have missed my point.
Someone created a clone of Sexton's that I tried. The thing you notice is this clone recipe fits pretty much 100% weight wise within older KFC recipes. And the 26oz bag recipes. So did the clone come from a combination of home KFC recipes. Or, did someone have a tin of Sexton's and figured it out. I suspect #1 but I don't know. Either way since we can't buy Sexton's we will never know. I tried a recipe with this clone and it had 0 note.
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Jun 25, 2022 14:45:05 GMT 1
which clone Did you Try flg.
what recipe
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flg
Souschef
Posts: 1,578
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Post by flg on Jun 25, 2022 15:02:56 GMT 1
which clone Did you Try flg. what recipe Lumpy's. I posted my recipe for using it as well |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2022 6:05:01 GMT 1
Morning fellas.
My original assumption was that CHS may have “improved” on an existing pre-packaged seasoning, i.e., added 3 extra ingredients to Sexton Poultry Seasoning (SPS) to arrive at 11.
The trademark information indicates that Sextons were producing seasoning as early as 1928, which was 6 years (?) before CHS is alleged to have developed the KFC formula. (I have lost the source that referenced 1934)
Deep-Fried just pointed out there are photos of CHS with Sexton tins in the background. So, perhaps the anecdote claiming CHS at one stage used SPS to cook fried chicken may indeed be true.
FLG, I only addressed the first half of your original reply where you said the following.
“I really feel the original roadside gas station version contained at minimum 1 pre-packaged seasoning” - We don't know if those were part of the "11".
That is true. However, given the evidence, including that from Deep-Fried, my assumption about CHS improving on the existing SPS formula also stands up.
What I have said in my original comment is most humans by nature are great copycats – mankind cannot imagine that which hasn’t already occurred before.
Then you went on to say
“Or did the 11 come about when some or all the pre-packaged ones were reverse engineered”
That is also a possibility.
However, do you have any evidence to support that claim?
The second part about using a copycat Sexton recipe I understood perfectly; there was no need to say anything about it, so I didn't.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2022 8:21:53 GMT 1
What was all that in English? ;-)
So what? The point is the 8 from on the side of the Sexton tin combined with loading up on the 2 bouillon cubes and MSG are probably the original 11, because all the "little tweaks" are producing the same taste, so they are probably doing nothing.
If you read the Sextons trademark application about halfway down, it says
SEASONING MATERIALS; NAMELY, JAMAICA ALLSPICE, [ SAIGON CINNAMON, JAVA CINNAMON, PENANG CLOVES, JAMAICA GINGER, BANDA MACE, ] DRY MUSTARD, NUTMEG, BLACK PEPPER, CAYENNE PEPPER, WHITE PEPPER, RED PEPPER, APPLE PIE SPICE, PUMPKIN PIE SPICE, PAPRIKA, CHILI POWDER, [ CAL-MEX SEED PODS, ] MEXICAN PEPPER, CHILI SEASONING, COMINO SEED, OREGANO, MIXED PICKLING SPICE, CELERY SALT, CELERY SEASONING, CREAM OF TARTAR, CREOLE SEASONING, CURRY POWDER, GARLIC POWDER, GARLIC SEASONING, GARLIC JUICE, ONION POWDER, ONION SALT, ONION SEASONING, SALT AND PEPPER MIX, MONOSODIUM GLUTAMATE SEASONING, ALMOND PASTE, APRICOT PASTE, MACAROON PASTE, CAPERS, DRIED MUSHROOMS, BEEF SOUP BASE, ONION SOUP BASE, BEEF BOUILLON CUBES, CHICKEN BOUILLON CUBES, VEGETABLE BOUILLON CUBES.
When you rule out everything that doesn't appear to make sense, then you are left with this list
SEASONING MATERIALS; NAMELY, JAMAICA ALLSPICE, DRY MUSTARD, NUTMEG, BLACK PEPPER, CAYENNE PEPPER, WHITE PEPPER, RED PEPPER, PAPRIKA, CHILI POWDER, [ CAL-MEX SEED PODS, ] MEXICAN PEPPER, COMINO SEED, OREGANO, CELERY SALT, CURRY POWDER, GARLIC POWDER, ONION POWDER, SALT, MONOSODIUM GLUTAMATE, BEEF SOUP BASE, ONION SOUP BASE, BEEF BOUILLON CUBES, CHICKEN BOUILLON CUBES, VEGETABLE BOUILLON CUBES.
I reckon it would be pretty close to how CHS did it.
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Post by Silver on Jun 27, 2022 11:24:51 GMT 1
My current thinking as to a rounded estimate of an approximate percentage breakdown that will make a good chicken coating:
Flour : 79%
Salt : 11.4%
Powdered Milk : 1.8%
Powdered Egg : 1.8%
Black Pepper : 1.3%
White Pepper : 1.3%
MSG : 1.2%
Coriander Seed : 0.6%
Allspice 0.4%
Ginger : 0.4%
Anise Seed : 0.2%
Cayenne Pepper : 0.2%
Mace : 0.05%
All Other H&S (the remaining 3) : 0.35%
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Post by Silver on Jun 27, 2022 11:47:47 GMT 1
The most likely major "All Other H&S" category choices for selecting the remaining 3 H&S are (in no particular order):
Sage
Savory
Thyme
Marjoram (sort of a tamed/domesticated Oregano)
Mexican Oregano (Lippia graveolens)
Mediterranean Oregano (common or [originally at least] wild Oregano)
Tarragon
Pick any 3, but pick only 1 from the Oregano group.
My advice is that if you choose to use Mediterranean Oregano, use it at no more than half the weight you would likely use for Marjoram. But my new favorite from this group is Mexican Oregano, and in my experience it can be used at up to twice the amount typical for Marjoram.
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Post by Silver on Jun 27, 2022 12:54:10 GMT 1
IMHO, the two posts above this one essentially render the rest of this entire thread (as to my posts found within) superfluous and antiquated.
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Jun 27, 2022 14:08:15 GMT 1
personally I would be using these
I would NOT limit the potential Greatness of the following OUT
Savory
Thyme
Marjoram
Mexican Oregano - SAGE
Tarragon
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Post by Silver on Jun 27, 2022 16:28:55 GMT 1
personally I would be using these I would NOT limit the potential Greatness of the following OUT Savory Thyme Marjoram Mexican Oregano - SAGE Tarragon But I said to pick 3, and I did not say to leave them out. |
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