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Post by Silver on Sept 3, 2023 2:17:05 GMT 1
If I got the conversion right to a standard 200g recipe. I’d be tempted to swap the pepper to 20g and the MSG to 13g. I wonder then when he left out the 13g if it being MSG would make more sense. If what he gave Shelton was a non extract version of the recipe. I’d still maintain it was a version of 99x. But regardless it may make sense this way. You may have a good point. The recipe we just did a couple days ago lacked in pepper, even with 13 grams. Do the bag labels place MSG ahead of or after Pepper?
Edit: At 20 grams of B&W Pepper I'd probably make the Paprika regular/sweet rather than Hot Hungarian.
Edit #2: And I'd make it 15 grams of Black and 5 grams of White. What are your thoughts on this?
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flg
Souschef
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Post by flg on Sept 3, 2023 14:28:38 GMT 1
If I got the conversion right to a standard 200g recipe. I’d be tempted to swap the pepper to 20g and the MSG to 13g. I wonder then when he left out the 13g if it being MSG would make more sense. If what he gave Shelton was a non extract version of the recipe. I’d still maintain it was a version of 99x. But regardless it may make sense this way. You may have a good point. The recipe we just did a couple days ago lacked in pepper, even with 13 grams. Do the bag labels place MSG ahead of or after Pepper?
Edit: At 20 grams of B&W Pepper I'd probably make the Paprika regular/sweet rather than Hot Hungarian.
Edit #2: And I'd make it 15 grams of Black and 5 grams of White. What are your thoughts on this?
If you go with the bagged 99x now apparently late 80's to early 90's. It lists Pepper, MSG, Salt. Which would support B&W Pepper weighing more than MSG. The old 60's spice bag lists MSG, Salt, White Pepper, Black Pepper. So it seems to break out the pepper types. So both I think support MSG being less than total B&W Pepper, But more than each pepper type individually
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Sept 3, 2023 14:48:35 GMT 1
PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING.
Items which Have to Be Mandatory Listed in the Ingredient List DO NOT have to follow the Rule for Being Listed in a Highest to Lowest Order of descending value amount
It says THEY MUST BE LISTED
Typically in the Pre- 70's they were listed First in the Ingredient's Then Companies were Listing them in the List at any position then when the Phrase May contain surfaced Allergens seemed o Be in the Last position, and some people listed All the Mandatory items near the Allergen phrase area.
Typically Many recipes contain Higher Salt and Do fall in the Higher category.
There Have been Many Stories which surfaced in multiple countries when People NOTICED M.S.G. on the List in the First Position and complained to Health Authorities and the Health Authorities Did Report Back that the M.S.G. was NOT the Highest Amounted item and it was Low on the Descending scale and was even cross calculated to see if they were using MORE then allowable Required limits and Each Country who checked Said that K.F.C. was within ALL Guidelines of M.S.G. use, it was one of the countries who wrote that M.S.G was a Mandatory item and that it was list first by choice not by weight descending value.
So One needs to Check if the M.S.G. Value is listed in a Mandatory List way or Did They follow a descending value rule ?
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flg
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Post by flg on Sept 3, 2023 15:01:17 GMT 1
PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING. Items which Have to Be Mandatory Listed in the Ingredient List DO NOT have to follow the Rule for Being Listed in a Highest to Lowest Order of descending value amount It says THEY MUST BE LISTED Typically in the Pre- 70's they were listed First in the Ingredient's Then Companies were Listing them in the List at any position then when the Phrase May contain surfaced Allergens seemed o Be in the Last position, and some people listed All the Mandatory items near the Allergen phrase area. Typically Many recipes contain Higher Salt and Do fall in the Higher category. There Have been Many Stories which surfaced in multiple countries when People NOTICED M.S.G. on the List in the First Position and complained to Health Authorities and the Health Authorities Did Report Back that the M.S.G. was NOT the Highest Amounted item and it was Low on the Descending scale and was even cross calculated to see if they were using MORE then allowable Required limits and Each Country who checked Said that K.F.C. was within ALL Guidelines of M.S.G. use, it was one of the countries who wrote that M.S.G was a Mandatory item and that it was list first by choice not by weight descending value. So One needs to Check if the M.S.G. Value is listed in a Mandatory List way or Did They follow a descending value rule ? Based on the 2 examples above it appears both are indicating as an order. Whether they had to or not. Sorry Going on memory from last night I think converted this recipe would be around 6g MSG and 4g pepper rounded into 200g flour. 4g pepper in all my tests is too little. I also don’t notice a flavor increase when I drive MSG higher than 4g in 200g flour. All based on my cooking. Hence I made the suggestion I may reverse the 13 and 20. He or you can do whatever you want |
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Post by Silver on Sept 3, 2023 16:13:58 GMT 1
The 20 grams scales to 13.33 grams in 200 grams of flour. The 13 grams scales to 8.67 grams in 200 grams of flour. flg (plus anyone else with an opinion), given this, which do you believe should be MSG and which should be Pepper? |
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flg
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Post by flg on Sept 3, 2023 16:44:42 GMT 1
The 20 grams scales to 13.33 grams in 200 grams of flour. The 13 grams scales to 8.67 grams in 200 grams of flour. flg (plus anyone else with an opinion), given this, which do you believe should be MSG and which should be Pepper? It was late but I came up with half those numbers. I’ll go take a look. When you take the salt out your down to 54g of what would be in a seasoning bag without extra salt. But that’s for a 300g recipe. |
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flg
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Post by flg on Sept 3, 2023 17:19:30 GMT 1
Ok looked at it again and got the numbers right. I’m still comfortable with the combination of black and white pepper being more than MSG. But either of black or white less than MSG
Not sure either of which is 20 or 13. My Winston doesn’t look at all like this so it’s how you want to pursue it
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Post by deepfriednew101 on Sept 3, 2023 17:31:32 GMT 1
M.S.G.
Is NOT part of the 11 Herb's and Spice's and WAS or IS NOT part of the 11 referenced by Winston S.
I will STATE this again
Salt, M.S.G. are NOT part of the 11 Herb's and Spice's LIST of Ingredient's as Listed by C.H.S. in His own Handwriting and The Recipe Does NOT even Contain the WORDS M.S.G. or Monosodium Glutamate as a ITEM ANYWHERE in the OLD recipe for Fried Chicken ?
Yes the Recipe Contains the Word Salt BUT NOT as the 11 Herbs and Spices either a separate Item just Like the Flour a separate Item.
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Post by Silver on Sept 3, 2023 17:49:12 GMT 1
Ok looked at it again and got the numbers right. I’m still comfortable with the combination of black and white pepper being more than MSG. But either of black or white less than MSG Not sure either of which is 20 or 13. My Winston doesn’t look at all like this so it’s how you want to pursue it What does your Winston Shelton proposal look like? |
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Post by Silver on Sept 3, 2023 18:23:29 GMT 1
An un-zinged Winston Shelton proposal. ~360 grams Flour (3 Level USA Cups) --------------------------------------------------- 51.0 grams Salt 20.0 grams B&W Pepper (15g Black, in 3 Grinds) [1] 13.0 grams MSG 10.0 grams Basil (or) Tarragon [2] 1.50 grams Coriander [3] 1.50 grams Sage [4] 1.33 grams Ginger [5] 0.33 grams Nutmeg [6] 0.33 grams Clove [7] 0.25 grams Mace [8] 0.25 grams Savory [9] 0.25 grams Garlic Powder [10] 0.25 grams Cinnamon [11]
Sum below the dashed line = 100 grams
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