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Post by Silver on Apr 29, 2023 17:28:21 GMT 1
A Eugenol free recipe which boosts Ginger as compensation:
200. grams Cake Flour 31.0 grams Flour Salt ---------------------- 6.50 grams MSG 0.50 grams Dextrose (or 0.30 grams common Granulated Sugar) 4.25 grams Black Pepper (~half fine, ~half medium coarse) 3.00 grams White Pepper 1.50 grams Coriander Seed 1.50 grams Ginger 1.50 grams Sage 0.50 grams Anise Seed 0.25 grams Nutmeg 0.125 grams Mace 0.125 grams Summer Savory 0.125 grams Thyme 0.125 grams Garlic Powder Sum = 20 grams below the dashed line
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Post by Silver on Apr 30, 2023 11:10:44 GMT 1
Revised Eugenol Free Recipe:
200. grams Cake Flour 32.0 grams Flour Salt ------------------------------ 7.25 grams MSG 0.50 grams Dextrose (or 0.30 grams Granulated Sugar) 4.25 grams Black Pepper (Half Fine, Half Medium Coarse) [1] 3.00 grams White Pepper [2] 1.25 grams Coriander Seed [3] 1.25 grams Ginger [4] 1.25 grams Sage [5] 0.50 grams Anise Seed [6] 0.25 grams Nutmeg [7] 0.125 grams Mace [8] 0.125 grams Summer Savory [9] 0.125 grams Thyme [10] 0.125 grams Garlic Powder [11]
Sum = 20 Grams below the dashed line
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chris
Dishwasher
Posts: 13
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Post by chris on May 9, 2023 16:56:51 GMT 1
Nutmeg and mace have eugenol
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Post by Silver on May 9, 2023 17:08:05 GMT 1
Nutmeg and mace have eugenol Yes, but in highly inconsequential amounts, as I would initially presume that you might agree. As I see it there is no further need to stir the pot with regard to Eugenol unless its merely to perpetuate argument for nothing more than arguments sake.
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chris
Dishwasher
Posts: 13
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Post by chris on May 9, 2023 19:06:46 GMT 1
Just pointing out a fact in case you didn't realise it because I have seen others with misconceptions in regards to eugenol before.
I'd like to participate in your thread but unfortunately I've always used at least one eugenol containing ingredient in my recipes, even if it were at a small amount. If exceptions are being made this is my contribution, although not perfect.
2 tsp White pepper 1.5 tsp Black pepper 0.5 tsp Cayenne 0.5 tsp Ginger powder 0.25 tsp Nutmeg (contains Eugenol) 0.25 tsp Rosemary 0.25 tsp Summer Savory 0.25 tsp Sage 0.25 tsp Vanilla sugar (Vanilla contains eugenol, but doubtful vanilla sugar does) 0.12.5 tsp Garlic powder
4 tsp salt 3 tsp msg 1 cup flour (single dredge)
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Post by Silver on May 9, 2023 20:45:36 GMT 1
Just pointing out a fact in case you didn't realise it because I have seen others with misconceptions in regards to eugenol before. I'd like to participate in your thread but unfortunately I've always used at least one eugenol containing ingredient in my recipes, even if it were at a small amount. If exceptions are being made this is my contribution, although not perfect. 2 tsp White pepper 1.5 tsp Black pepper 0.5 tsp Cayenne 0.5 tsp Ginger powder 0.25 tsp Nutmeg (contains Eugenol) 0.25 tsp Rosemary 0.25 tsp Summer Savory 0.25 tsp Sage 0.25 tsp Vanilla sugar (Vanilla contains eugenol, but doubtful vanilla sugar does) 0.12.5 tsp Garlic powder 4 tsp salt 3 tsp msg 1 cup flour (single dredge) I like it! chris , have you read within this forum of my theory wherein upon heat decomposition the Gingerol found within Ginger is highly (to potentially completely) decomposed into a molecule called Zingerone? Zingerone is a molecular kissing cousin to both Eugenol and Vanillin. So my theory is that if adequate Ginger is present whereby to generate a sufficient presence of Zingerone during deep frying, then it may be possible to reduce, and even on up to eliminate the major Eugenol and Vanillin contributors such as Clove and Allspice and Vanilla. Whereas on the other forum Ken is experimenting with getting rid of Ginger, while retaining Eugenol ingredient source(s) [Allspice, or Allspice and Clove], this theory is fundamentally performing the exact opposite of the one Ken is pursuing. With the prospect that either approach may be valid, albeit with requisite cooking verification. Edit: There is another decomposition product of Gingerol, with that being Shogaol. Shogaol exhibits a strong Pepper like nature. It may be the answer to the telltale lingering pepper bite that one gets from eating KFC OR. With adequate Shogaol, there may be no need for Cayenne Pepper.
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chris
Dishwasher
Posts: 13
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Post by chris on May 12, 2023 13:58:09 GMT 1
No I've never heard of Zingerone. I think that a fork in the road in this exploration is for the best. This quest has a lot of recreating the wheel to be honest and in my opinion it's a good thing that people are having objective with critical thinking so to form their own opinion and deductions so that we can avoid re creating the wheel even more. Personally I am not as educated on the chemistry with ginger as you are. The only reason I have educated my self on eugenol is because it kept being brought up in conversations and I wanted a deeper understanding of what people were talking about. Sadly I realised that many people were talking out of their ass. I encourage you to pursue your path. Like I said, I'm not up there with the chemistry of these matters. For me personally and I even remember you making a thread making a similar stance, ginger flavour does not influence fried chicken taste. Your thread stated several herbs + spices, many of which I agreed with you, but some I didn't.
The recipe I listed above is one of my old recipes. I normally include ginger in my recipes because of some historic implications but honestly if I have to cut ingredients, ginger and coriander seed are always the first to go. I don't think they offer any flavour at all unless they exceed the amount of pepper.
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chris
Dishwasher
Posts: 13
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Post by chris on May 12, 2023 14:15:42 GMT 1
Whereas on the other forum Ken is experimenting with getting rid of Ginger, while retaining Eugenol ingredient source(s) [Allspice, or Allspice and Clove], this theory is fundamentally performing the exact opposite of the one Ken is pursuing If I'm to criticise Ken's path, all I've got to say is that I do not think Allspice is in the mix. It either adds no flavour or it brings a floral note which doesn't fit. I'm not using it at the moment but I have not ruled out clove. Ken's been making chicken longer than me so he probably has greater wisdom than I do.
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Post by Silver on May 12, 2023 14:38:33 GMT 1
For me personally and I even remember you making a thread making a similar stance, ginger flavour does not influence fried chicken taste. Your thread stated several herbs + spices, many of which I agreed with you, but some I didn't. I never said that. I've said only that the Gingerol within Ginger decomposes under high heat into both Zingerone and Shogaol, and that the first of these highly resembles both Eugenol and Vanillin, and the second of these delivers a pungent pepper like character. So in effect I guess that you can round-about state (such as you have) that Ginger does not contribute it's original Gingerol essence (I.E., the flavor of un-decomposed Ginger) to deep fried chicken.
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chris
Dishwasher
Posts: 13
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Post by chris on May 12, 2023 14:55:43 GMT 1
Hmm, Seems I must have gotten mixed up. Sorry about that. Either way for me personally I don't usually rank ginger of high priority but if you're raising its content beyond what others have done before then that's exiting none the less. I'm looking forward to hearing the results and if you're predictions were on the right track. Be sure to know that if you're wrong there is no failure when you're exploring something that no one else has done. Good luck.
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